Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
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26-08-2016, 08:16 PM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  That's news to me so I will look more into it. However, even if you're correct, it won't change my opinion of which candidate we should be electing in November. While I agree that's a very serious concern, I have no reason to believe Trump would be any different and, at the very least, every reason to believe he would be so much worse in so many other areas of great importance to the US.
There's no precedent for her actions so I think we do have a reason to believe that he would be different. Hillary is the first person in US history to store top secret information on a secret, private server at home. You clearly don't understand the gravity of her actions if you think she would still be a preferable alternative. Trump is a terrible candidate, no argument there, but so is Clinton. She's an interventionist warmonger (Iraq, Lybia, etc.) who is going to sell the US to corporate interests (TPP).

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Actually we have plenty of things that tell us what a Trump Presidency would be like not the least of which is his business mentality of surviving off of huge debt and leaving people he worked with high and dry. We know he wants to ban all Muslims from entering the US - which alone will incite more people to join the terrorists in my view - and, although he might backpedal on this stance it would only be because his poll numbers are down, not because he actually cares to distinguish people according to their actions rather than by ethnicity or race.
That's an old statement (mid-2015) which has been clarified and expanded upon a number of times since then. Also, "Muslim" is a religious affiliation, not a race or ethnicity.

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  We know he's egocentric and cares about few people, but himself and perhaps his family. That leads me to believe his actions in the White House would be in his own interest more than in the country's
Do you think Hillary would be any different in that regard? If not, it's a moot point, right?

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  We know his ideas make no sense so, unless he surrounds himself with people who have better ideas and actually listens to them, his policies will fail miserably - and if his campaign choices are any indication, he has no clue what people to surround himself with. We are virtually guaranteed to bring this country down on so many levels with Trump.
I'll grant you that ideas such as getting Mexico to pay for a border wall or using nuclear weapons don't make a lot of sense, but some of his policies actually have a lot of merit. You should read the detailed proposals on his website if you haven't already. It won't convince you to vote for him, but it'll give you an insight into what he wants to accomplish beyond the sound bites that are repeated in the media and at his rallies.

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  With Hillary, she might leak something critical. Yes, that would be serious for Hillary, but I'd much rather take that gamble.
I'm personally not worried about any leaks, I'm worried about the global impact of her foreign policy decisions. If the American voter base hadn't elected a warmonger like Bush twice, Germany might not be dealing with the refugee crisis right now.

(26-08-2016 11:41 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  A guy who says he's going to go after terrorists families and is going to make Mexico pay for a huge border wall, or says he's going to "open up our libel laws" so he can prosecute people who offend him, somehow isn't reckless. Oookay.
I'm afraid I won't be able to take your posts seriously until you respond to the words I used instead of the fantasies in your head. I never said that Trump isn't reckless.

(26-08-2016 12:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Including Trump himself. And that seems pretty reckless to me. Just roll the dice with your vote and hope for the best. I mean what the hell do you have to lose? I'm glad you don't get to vote.
I would vote for Jim Webb, what's wrong with that?

(26-08-2016 12:47 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  No he didn't, but he encouraged the Russians to get ahold of it. I heard him say so. Totally insane.
That's not true. The e-mails in question were deleted months ago and were not work-related according to Hillary. He never encouraged anyone to get a hold of classified, let alone top secret information.

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26-08-2016, 08:27 PM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
That debate will be interesting. I plan to watch every minute of it.

Besides the content put forth, I am going to pay close attention to body language and facial expression - usually I don't do that. But because of the nature I think this debate will be, I think it would be quite interesting.

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26-08-2016, 08:36 PM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 11:41 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  A guy who says he's going to go after terrorists families and is going to make Mexico pay for a huge border wall, or says he's going to "open up our libel laws" so he can prosecute people who offend him, somehow isn't reckless. Oookay.
I'm afraid I won't be able to take your posts seriously until you respond to the words I used instead of the fantasies in your head. I never said that Trump isn't reckless.

But you did say "we don't know how Trump's presidency would turn out", as though there aren't glaringly obvious signs as to how it would turn out, given his reckless nature. There is no reason whatsoever to give Trump any benefit of the doubt.

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26-08-2016, 08:50 PM (This post was last modified: 26-08-2016 08:58 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  That's news to me so I will look more into it. However, even if you're correct, it won't change my opinion of which candidate we should be electing in November. While I agree that's a very serious concern, I have no reason to believe Trump would be any different and, at the very least, every reason to believe he would be so much worse in so many other areas of great importance to the US.
There's no precedent for her actions so I think we do have a reason to believe that he would be different. Hillary is the first person in US history to store top secret information on a secret, private server at home. You clearly don't understand the gravity of her actions if you think she would still be a preferable alternative. Trump is a terrible candidate, no argument there, but so is Clinton. She's an interventionist warmonger (Iraq, Lybia, etc.) who is going to sell the US to corporate interests (TPP).

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Actually we have plenty of things that tell us what a Trump Presidency would be like not the least of which is his business mentality of surviving off of huge debt and leaving people he worked with high and dry. We know he wants to ban all Muslims from entering the US - which alone will incite more people to join the terrorists in my view - and, although he might backpedal on this stance it would only be because his poll numbers are down, not because he actually cares to distinguish people according to their actions rather than by ethnicity or race.
That's an old statement (mid-2015) which has been clarified and expanded upon a number of times since then. Also, "Muslim" is a religious affiliation, not a race or ethnicity.

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  We know he's egocentric and cares about few people, but himself and perhaps his family. That leads me to believe his actions in the White House would be in his own interest more than in the country's
Do you think Hillary would be any different in that regard? If not, it's a moot point, right?

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  We know his ideas make no sense so, unless he surrounds himself with people who have better ideas and actually listens to them, his policies will fail miserably - and if his campaign choices are any indication, he has no clue what people to surround himself with. We are virtually guaranteed to bring this country down on so many levels with Trump.
I'll grant you that ideas such as getting Mexico to pay for a border wall or using nuclear weapons don't make a lot of sense, but some of his policies actually have a lot of merit. You should read the detailed proposals on his website if you haven't already. It won't convince you to vote for him, but it'll give you an insight into what he wants to accomplish beyond the sound bites that are repeated in the media and at his rallies.

(26-08-2016 09:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  With Hillary, she might leak something critical. Yes, that would be serious for Hillary, but I'd much rather take that gamble.
I'm personally not worried about any leaks, I'm worried about the global impact of her foreign policy decisions. If the American voter base hadn't elected a warmonger like Bush twice, Germany might not be dealing with the refugee crisis right now.

(26-08-2016 11:41 AM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  A guy who says he's going to go after terrorists families and is going to make Mexico pay for a huge border wall, or says he's going to "open up our libel laws" so he can prosecute people who offend him, somehow isn't reckless. Oookay.
I'm afraid I won't be able to take your posts seriously until you respond to the words I used instead of the fantasies in your head. I never said that Trump isn't reckless.

(26-08-2016 12:43 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Including Trump himself. And that seems pretty reckless to me. Just roll the dice with your vote and hope for the best. I mean what the hell do you have to lose? I'm glad you don't get to vote.
I would vote for Jim Webb, what's wrong with that?

(26-08-2016 12:47 PM)Born Again Pagan Wrote:  No he didn't, but he encouraged the Russians to get ahold of it. I heard him say so. Totally insane.
That's not true. The e-mails in question were deleted months ago and were not work-related according to Hillary. He never encouraged anyone to get a hold of classified, let alone top secret information.

What amazes me the most is the amount of effort you put into an election where you have no vote, no voice. If you think a neofascist Kraut with no vote is gonna influence the US voting pool you insult us and embarrass yourself.

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26-08-2016, 10:23 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2016 07:29 AM by Full Circle.)
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 08:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  There's no precedent for her actions so I think we do have a reason to believe that he would be different. Hillary is the first person in US history to store top secret information on a secret, private server at home. You clearly don't understand the gravity of her actions if you think she would still be a preferable alternative. Trump is a terrible candidate, no argument there, but so is Clinton. She's an interventionist warmonger (Iraq, Lybia, etc.) who is going to sell the US to corporate interests (TPP).

That's an old statement (mid-2015) which has been clarified and expanded upon a number of times since then. Also, "Muslim" is a religious affiliation, not a race or ethnicity.

Do you think Hillary would be any different in that regard? If not, it's a moot point, right?

I'll grant you that ideas such as getting Mexico to pay for a border wall or using nuclear weapons don't make a lot of sense, but some of his policies actually have a lot of merit. You should read the detailed proposals on his website if you haven't already. It won't convince you to vote for him, but it'll give you an insight into what he wants to accomplish beyond the sound bites that are repeated in the media and at his rallies.

I'm personally not worried about any leaks, I'm worried about the global impact of her foreign policy decisions. If the American voter base hadn't elected a warmonger like Bush twice, Germany might not be dealing with the refugee crisis right now.

I'm afraid I won't be able to take your posts seriously until you respond to the words I used instead of the fantasies in your head. I never said that Trump isn't reckless.

I would vote for Jim Webb, what's wrong with that?

That's not true. The e-mails in question were deleted months ago and were not work-related according to Hillary. He never encouraged anyone to get a hold of classified, let alone top secret information.

What amazes me the most is the amount of effort you put into an election where you have no vote, no voice. If you think a neofascist Kraut with no vote is gonna influence the US voting pool you insult us and embarrass yourself.

I wish half the American electorate were as informed as Vosur. Say what you want of him, but he makes genuinely good points (so even if he doesn’t have a vote he certainly has a voice) and gives me something to think about and usually backs up his position with the proper citations...not to mention his spelling is wunderbar!

We don’t necessarily agree on things but then I give him a lot of credit for his insight. You might want to loosen that fundoshi G-man, it must me cutting off the circulation. Fucking Girly.

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Edit: spell checking didn’t pass the neofascist Kraut test Dodgy It was late, fat fingers...I have good excuses. Wink

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26-08-2016, 11:58 PM (This post was last modified: 27-08-2016 12:01 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 08:36 PM)GenesisNemesis Wrote:  But you did say "we don't know how Trump's presidency would turn out", as though there aren't glaringly obvious signs as to how it would turn out, given his reckless nature. There is no reason whatsoever to give Trump any benefit of the doubt.
Well, I think there is one reason: He seems to be pretending to be someone else while running for POTUS. He decided to run as a religious Republican even though his past statements show him to be a liberal who is neither very religious nor particularly conservative. The other day he started dialing back his reckless rhetoric about forcibly deporting virtually all 11m+ illegal immigrants in the US - whether this is a result of a genuine change of mind or the result of polling is hard to tell. He's a total wildcard as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't advise anyone to vote for him, but I do believe he would be preferable to Clinton if for no other reason than because he probably wouldn't be able to pass any of his more inane policies through Congress.

(26-08-2016 08:50 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What amazes me the most is the amount of effort you put into an election where you have no vote, no voice. If you think a neofascist Kraut with no vote is gonna influence the US voting pool you insult us and embarrass yourself.
I have no such ambitions. TTA has so few members compared to the size of the US voter base that even convincing every single American here to vote a certain way would make virtually no difference in the outcome. I'm doing this because I want to be able to say that I tried my best whenever the inevitable happens. Maybe there will be another Brexit and Trump will win after all, but I don't think it's going to happen anymore. This election and the 2017 elections back in Germany are my last chances to save my future in my home country. If both Clinton and the CDU (Merkel's party) win, I'll stay in the Czech Republic for good.

(26-08-2016 10:23 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I wish half the American electorate were as informed as Vosur. Say what you want of him, but he makes genuinely good points (so even if he doesn’t have a vote he certainly has a voice) and gives me something to think about and usually backs up his position with the proper citations...not to mention his spelling is wunderbar!

We don’t necessarily agree on things but the I give him a lot of credit for his insight. You might want to loosen that fundoshi G-man, it must me cutting off the circulation. Fucking Girly.

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It means a lot to hear you say that. I know that I've become much more abrasive than I used to be, but I'm working on it. This election brings out the worst in me and a couple other people. Hopefully we'll all be able to move past it once it's finally over.

Edit: Oh, I almost forgot...

(26-08-2016 10:23 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  We don’t necessarily agree on things but the I give him a lot of credit for his insight.
Bzzz, wrong! Big Grin

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27-08-2016, 07:34 AM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 11:58 PM)Vosur Wrote:  It means a lot to hear you say that. I know that I've become much more abrasive than I used to be, but I'm working on it. This election brings out the worst in me and a couple other people. Hopefully we’ll all be able to move past it once it’s finally over.

No problem. This will all soon be over figuratively speaking unless Trump does win and then it will really be over.

(26-08-2016 11:58 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Edit: Oh, I almost forgot...

(26-08-2016 10:23 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  We don’t necessarily agree on things but the I give him a lot of credit for his insight.
Bzzz, wrong! Big Grin

See my edit you neofascist Kraut. Dodgy

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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28-08-2016, 04:10 PM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  There's no precedent for her actions so I think we do have a reason to believe that he would be different. Hillary is the first person in US history to store top secret information on a secret, private server at home. You clearly don't understand the gravity of her actions if you think she would still be a preferable alternative. Trump is a terrible candidate, no argument there, but so is Clinton. She's an interventionist warmonger (Iraq, Lybia, etc.) who is going to sell the US to corporate interests (TPP).

This is the man who encouraged Russia to find more of Hillary's emails knowing some of them were classified (yes, I checked and found you're right about that point). So I'm not seeing any reason to believe he would do what's needed for national security - quite the opposite. Besides, while Hillary may be the first to have an email server at home, she isn't the only one using unclassified email systems in general. Not that this makes much difference, but I'm just correcting the point you made. I certainly do understand the gravity of Hillary's actions (and don't really appreciate your patronizing tone), but I always vote on a total picture, not just one issue. And, yes, national security is the #1 top issue, but again, I have no reason to believe Trump would handle things any better - in fact, I have grave concerns regarding that - nor do I have reason to necessarily believe Hillary would do this again after the whole mess that has ensued regarding her emails.

(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  That's an old statement (mid-2015) which has been clarified and expanded upon a number of times since then. Also, "Muslim" is a religious affiliation, not a race or ethnicity.

The term "Muslim" is what Trump himself said so only he knows exactly who he intended to include under that umbrella. The main thing that changed is he revised it to only banning people from countries with heavy terrorist activity. But this only came after his nomination and was obviously not a change of heart, but a change of politics for the sake of trying to get elected.

(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Do you think Hillary would be any different in that regard? If not, it's a moot point, right?

Yes, I do. Trump has run his business not caring who he steps on or who he leaves in ruins as long as it benefits his own interests. He knows how to work the system for personal gain and I believe this is the single greatest reason he wants to be President. Yes, Hillary would probably do some things in her own interest as well, but without leaving behind the same devastation that Trump would. So it would be different because it would be far less damaging.

(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'll grant you that ideas such as getting Mexico to pay for a border wall or using nuclear weapons don't make a lot of sense, but some of his policies actually have a lot of merit. You should read the detailed proposals on his website if you haven't already. It won't convince you to vote for him, but it'll give you an insight into what he wants to accomplish beyond the sound bites that are repeated in the media and at his rallies.

I have read them. I have already stated my view about how he would handle national security and that I consider this issue #1 most important. Issue #2 is tied in importance between the economy and foreign relations. His plans for the economy are horrible and economists think so too. I also think there is serious concern about how he would handle foreign relations. First, he seems to be awfully friendly with Russia and that's suspicious. Second, he doesn't have a clue about diplomacy and that would seriously undermine his effectiveness at any international table. Third, he's very good at alienating whole groups of people. Fourth, he has revealed a lot about his manner of thinking and about the people he would surround himself with to aid in that thinking - both leave much concern about what he would bring to any international conversations. With #1 and #2 both looking so miserable, it frankly doesn't matter much what good ideas he has after that. Hillary leaves him in the dust with those and those issues are too important to be screwed up. But I happen to think Hillary beats Trump on so many other lower-importance issues anyway.

(26-08-2016 08:16 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I'm personally not worried about any leaks, I'm worried about the global impact of her foreign policy decisions. If the American voter base hadn't elected a warmonger like Bush twice, Germany might not be dealing with the refugee crisis right now.

I'm surprised you're not worried about leaks given your telling me about the gravity of Hillary's actions in your first quote in this post. But I'm certainly in agreement about the importance of foreign policy decisions and, as explained above, I think Trump will do horribly in that regard. In fact, he would be even worse than Bush.

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28-08-2016, 10:01 PM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  This is the man who encouraged Russia to find more of Hillary's emails knowing some of them were classified (yes, I checked and found you're right about that point). So I'm not seeing any reason to believe he would do what's needed for national security - quite the opposite.
Trump encouraged Russia to retrieve the 30,000 personal e-mails which Clinton deleted last year. According to her, they were not work-related and therefore not classified. It was no doubt a tremendously (heh) foolish decision to say what he did, but I don't think characterizing it as him encouraging Russia to obtain sensitive information is warranted.

(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Besides, while Hillary may be the first to have an email server at home, she isn't the only one using unclassified email systems in general. Not that this makes much difference, but I'm just correcting the point you made.
There's a significant difference, one that James Comey himself pointed out in his testimony to Congress. He said that even a regular e-mail provider like Google Mail was much more secure than Clinton's server (let alone an official government one).

(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I certainly do understand the gravity of Hillary's actions (and don't really appreciate your patronizing tone), but I always vote on a total picture, not just one issue. And, yes, national security is the #1 top issue, but again, I have no reason to believe Trump would handle things any better - in fact, I have grave concerns regarding that - nor do I have reason to necessarily believe Hillary would do this again after the whole mess that has ensued regarding her emails.
My apologies for the patronizing tone. I've been spending some time talking to Clinton supporters elsewhere and it really grates my nerves when I get the impression that someone is trying to hand wave the significance of this scandal away, especially when it's done on the basis of technically illiterate or historically inaccurate objections (not that you used any of them).

(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  The term "Muslim" is what Trump himself said so only he knows exactly who he intended to include under that umbrella. The main thing that changed is he revised it to only banning people from countries with heavy terrorist activity. But this only came after his nomination and was obviously not a change of heart, but a change of politics for the sake of trying to get elected.
I think the change came a couple months before the RNC, but I would have to check to be sure. He should have been more clear in his initial address in any case. Methinks it was intentional because it was obvious that making no differentiation between American Muslims living abroad and foreign Muslims from terrorist countries would generate a huge controversy which would no doubt keep him in the news cycle all week. There's a reason he got a few billion dollars in free publicity from the media after all. I doubt the statement would have been anywhere near as controversial if he had said "Donald Trump is calling for a total shutdown of (Muslim) immigration from known terrorist countries."

(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Yes, I do. Trump has run his business not caring who he steps on or who he leaves in ruins as long as it benefits his own interests. He knows how to work the system for personal gain and I believe this is the single greatest reason he wants to be President. Yes, Hillary would probably do some things in her own interest as well, but without leaving behind the same devastation that Trump would. So it would be different because it would be far less damaging.
The most significant difference, to me, is where the damage occurred. Trump caused it in the US, Clinton caused it abroad, so I can see your point.

(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I have read them. I have already stated my view about how he would handle national security and that I consider this issue #1 most important. Issue #2 is tied in importance between the economy and foreign relations. His plans for the economy are horrible and economists think so too. I also think there is serious concern about how he would handle foreign relations. First, he seems to be awfully friendly with Russia and that's suspicious. Second, he doesn't have a clue about diplomacy and that would seriously undermine his effectiveness at any international table. Third, he's very good at alienating whole groups of people. Fourth, he has revealed a lot about his manner of thinking and about the people he would surround himself with to aid in that thinking - both leave much concern about what he would bring to any international conversations. With #1 and #2 both looking so miserable, it frankly doesn't matter much what good ideas he has after that. Hillary leaves him in the dust with those and those issues are too important to be screwed up. But I happen to think Hillary beats Trump on so many other lower-importance issues anyway.
Agreed, those are all valid concerns. I'm not sure that I can say anything to convince you that my concerns about Clinton are more severe than the ones you have about Trump.

(28-08-2016 04:10 PM)Impulse Wrote:  I'm surprised you're not worried about leaks given your telling me about the gravity of Hillary's actions in your first quote in this post. But I'm certainly in agreement about the importance of foreign policy decisions and, as explained above, I think Trump will do horribly in that regard. In fact, he would be even worse than Bush.
I suppose I should have been more clear. I'm not concerned about them personally because they would only threaten US national security, not the national security of the countries that I live in (Germany and the Czech Republic).

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29-08-2016, 07:20 AM
RE: Leave it to Trump to Achieve the Impossible
(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Trump encouraged Russia to retrieve the 30,000 personal e-mails which Clinton deleted last year. According to her, they were not work-related and therefore not classified. It was no doubt a tremendously (heh) foolish decision to say what he did, but I don't think characterizing it as him encouraging Russia to obtain sensitive information is warranted.
Correct, but irrelevant. Do you honestly think that if Russia were to locate those 30,000 emails that they wouldn't find others and possibly more classified ones? If there's one positive thing I can say about Trump, it's that he's not stupid. Surely, he was fully aware of this when he said what he did.

(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  There's a significant difference, one that James Comey himself pointed out in his testimony to Congress. He said that even a regular e-mail provider like Google Mail was much more secure than Clinton's server (let alone an official government one).
No, not significant at all. The mindset that decides it's okay to communicate sensitive and classified information on channels that are less secure than the best that we have is identical.

(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  My apologies for the patronizing tone. I've been spending some time talking to Clinton supporters elsewhere and it really grates my nerves when I get the impression that someone is trying to hand wave the significance of this scandal away, especially when it's done on the basis of technically illiterate or historically inaccurate objections (not that you used any of them).
Thanks. Accepted and understood. There are certainly plenty of ignorant people on both sides of the discussion.

(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I think the change came a couple months before the RNC, but I would have to check to be sure. He should have been more clear in his initial address in any case. Methinks it was intentional because it was obvious that making no differentiation between American Muslims living abroad and foreign Muslims from terrorist countries would generate a huge controversy which would no doubt keep him in the news cycle all week. There's a reason he got a few billion dollars in free publicity from the media after all. I doubt the statement would have been anywhere near as controversial if he had said "Donald Trump is calling for a total shutdown of (Muslim) immigration from known terrorist countries."
You're correct about the timing - careless wording on my part. What I meant is the change came when his nomination was all but official. I agree Trump says and does a lot to keep attention focused on his campaign, but he's speaking to a world-wide audience and the statements about banning all Muslims have been made now. Yes, he's try to narrow that a bit, but not only does it ring hollow, but it's still too broad-sweeping. There are plenty of people in countries compromised by terrorism who don't agree with terrorist ideology at all, but they too would be banned by Trump. And the numbers aren't small.

(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  The most significant difference, to me, is where the damage occurred. Trump caused it in the US, Clinton caused it abroad, so I can see your point.
I'm not sure why you're using past tense, but I think you mean "would cause". It will probably come as no surprise that I believe Trump would be very damaging abroad, but Clinton would not be. Clinton would probably be somewhat similar to Obama (not sure how you feel about his performance abroad). I've already said plenty about why I think Trump would be quite damaging.

(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  Agreed, those are all valid concerns. I'm not sure that I can say anything to convince you that my concerns about Clinton are more severe than the ones you have about Trump.
I'm convinced that you believe so, does that count? Tongue Seriously, yes, I'm sure that's true that you won't likely convince me that the concerns about Clinton are objectively more severe.

(28-08-2016 10:01 PM)Vosur Wrote:  I suppose I should have been more clear. I'm not concerned about them personally because they would only threaten US national security, not the national security of the countries that I live in (Germany and the Czech Republic).
Got it. I'm admittedly not as educated about either of those countries as you seem to be about the U.S. so I'm sure that isn't helping me to understand your perspective.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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