Leela & Malleus on Diet
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29-10-2012, 01:40 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
I'm not sure what the science is behind this particular diet. I'm not even trying to get it anymore. Every time I think I get a point of view from someone with authority in the field, I hear an equally convincing opposing opinion from another nutritionist who claims that they have the science to back them up. I chose to try this particular diet because, as Leela says, my uncle has been oscillating between overweight and obese for at least the last 25 years that I can remember, despite his repeated efforts to lose some weight. Now he lost something around 30 kg from January to May. It's nearly November and he did not gain anything since. He taught the same diet to a friend - also all-life fat - and his results are equally impressive.

If I understand correctly, the diet is supposed to re-balance the eating habits and you reach "a new normal" that you can safely and relatively easily keep for the rest of your life. Or it can all be bullshit, but I know that two of the fattest people in my circle of friends and relatives lost serious weight fast without doing anything extreme. By 'anything extreme' I mean: no starvation, at least one 'all you can eat' meal per day that includes both meat/fish and vegetables and one meal per week where no rules apply. It's not supposed to be easy, but I find it bearable, at least on paper. I write this after the first day. It was different, but not that bad. Also, there is nothing stupidly extreme like removing a food group completely and starving the body of some groups of nutrients.

As I said before, the two people who lost serious weight are not dieting anymore and they didn't gain anything back since May. Admittedly, they didn't go back to their old habits, but, as long as they keep sugars, fried stuff, bread, potatoes, and rice under control, they eat pretty much anything else until they are full.

I have no real idea why pork is a no-no, but the nutritionist lady insists and if I get the same results as the others had, I will consider it a small price to pay. Once a week for pleasure will have to be enough - though I keep hearing that pork is now making them feel kinda sick even in that once a week when no rules apply so they stopped eating it willingly altogether.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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29-10-2012, 01:52 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 01:40 PM)Malleus Wrote:  I'm not sure what the science is behind this particular diet. I'm not even trying to get it anymore. Every time I think I get a point of view from someone with authority in the field, I hear an equally convincing opposing opinion from another nutritionist who claims that they have the science to back them up. I chose to try this particular diet because, as Leela says, my uncle has been oscillating between overweight and obese for at least the last 25 years that I can remember, despite his repeated efforts to lose some weight. Now he lost something around 30 kg from January to May. It's nearly November and he did not gain anything since. He taught the same diet to a friend - also all-life fat - and his results are equally impressive.

If I understand correctly, the diet is supposed to re-balance the eating habits and you reach "a new normal" that you can safely and relatively easily keep for the rest of your life. Or it can all be bullshit, but I know that two of the fattest people in my circle of friends and relatives lost serious weight fast without doing anything extreme. By 'anything extreme' I mean: no starvation, at least one 'all you can eat' meal per day that includes both meat/fish and vegetables and one meal per week where no rules apply. It's not supposed to be easy, but I find it bearable, at least on paper. I write this after the first day. It was different, but not that bad. Also, there is nothing stupidly extreme like removing a food group completely and starving the body of some groups of nutrients.

As I said before, the two people who lost serious weight are not dieting anymore and they didn't gain anything back since May. Admittedly, they didn't go back to their old habits, but, as long as they keep sugars, fried stuff, bread, potatoes, and rice under control, they eat pretty much anything else until they are full.

I have no real idea why pork is a no-no, but the nutritionist lady insists and if I get the same results as the others had, I will consider it a small price to pay. Once a week for pleasure will have to be enough - though I keep hearing that pork is now making them feel kinda sick even in that once a week when no rules apply so they stopped eating it willingly altogether.

I wasn't questioning the science behind this diet, but the science behind statements like "eating carbs and fats together does X" or things like that.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-10-2012, 02:04 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
I know, Chas. I got that.

I do admit that I follow this diet 'as a ritual' and my confidence is based entirely on observed, rather anecdotal, but still impressive results. If I find it to work on me and Leela, I will say so, and maybe I will also try to understand why, but right now we just try to replicate the results. I have my doubts and I still need to see it to believe it - I expected something this radically effective to be much crazier and my uncle is certainly rich enough to get a liposuction, but he is convincingly claiming that this diet is all it took, so we try.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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29-10-2012, 02:20 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 02:04 PM)Malleus Wrote:  I know, Chas. I got that.

I do admit that I follow this diet 'as a ritual' and my confidence is based entirely on observed, rather anecdotal, but still impressive results. If I find it to work on me and Leela, I will say so, and maybe I will also try to understand why, but right now we just try to replicate the results. I have my doubts and I still need to see it to believe it - I expected something this radically effective to be much crazier and my uncle is certainly rich enough to get a liposuction, but he is convincingly claiming that this diet is all it took, so we try.

I have no argument with using what works; we don't have to have full understanding.

However, diets that claim an unproven mechanism, e.g. "combining carbs and protein prevents vitamin K absorption", really annoy me.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-10-2012, 02:22 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
Good luck to you guys. Losing weight can be a tough battle, and I wish you victory.

I do have one, teeny, tiny suggestion.......take it or leave it, no biggie, but I thought it worthwhile to share.

Replace that morning piece of bread with a slice of ham, a couple slices of bacon, or even some warmed up, leftover chicken. Protein is most important in the morning. It fuels you until your next meal without a sugar crash. That bread is just not good for you. The term "whole grain" makes me want to tear my hair out. Humans are NOT well adapted to digesting whole grains. Our ancestors did not eat whole grains, and our digestive processes have not yet evolved to deviate from that. Just have a look at nature (no I'm not getting into the whole "natural eating" shite...just bear with me). Very few animals outside of birds, will eat whole grains. Seeds have not yet realized their potential for nutrition, and therefore, we are, on a very basic level, inclined to leave them to grow into palatable plants.

Regardless of the route you take, please, if nothing else, try to be cautious when you think "whole grains". They are not much better for you than processed sugars.

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29-10-2012, 02:30 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 12:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 11:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  ... Fat only is fattening as it interacts with carbs. The rule of thumb is either you are allowed carbs or fat. ...

I hear stuff like this all the time. Is there any science to support this?

The way I understand it, the body burns either carbs or fat for energy. In presence of both, the fat gets stored and is bad news. In absence of carbs, fat gets burned for energy.

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29-10-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 01:40 PM)Malleus Wrote:  I'm not sure what the science is behind this particular diet. I'm not even trying to get it anymore. Every time I think I get a point of view from someone with authority in the field, I hear an equally convincing opposing opinion from another nutritionist who claims that they have the science to back them up. I chose to try this particular diet because, as Leela says, my uncle has been oscillating between overweight and obese for at least the last 25 years that I can remember, despite his repeated efforts to lose some weight. Now he lost something around 30 kg from January to May. It's nearly November and he did not gain anything since. He taught the same diet to a friend - also all-life fat - and his results are equally impressive.

If I understand correctly, the diet is supposed to re-balance the eating habits and you reach "a new normal" that you can safely and relatively easily keep for the rest of your life. Or it can all be bullshit, but I know that two of the fattest people in my circle of friends and relatives lost serious weight fast without doing anything extreme. By 'anything extreme' I mean: no starvation, at least one 'all you can eat' meal per day that includes both meat/fish and vegetables and one meal per week where no rules apply. It's not supposed to be easy, but I find it bearable, at least on paper. I write this after the first day. It was different, but not that bad. Also, there is nothing stupidly extreme like removing a food group completely and starving the body of some groups of nutrients.

As I said before, the two people who lost serious weight are not dieting anymore and they didn't gain anything back since May. Admittedly, they didn't go back to their old habits, but, as long as they keep sugars, fried stuff, bread, potatoes, and rice under control, they eat pretty much anything else until they are full.

I have no real idea why pork is a no-no, but the nutritionist lady insists and if I get the same results as the others had, I will consider it a small price to pay. Once a week for pleasure will have to be enough - though I keep hearing that pork is now making them feel kinda sick even in that once a week when no rules apply so they stopped eating it willingly altogether.

There are countless diets that work, at least temporarily. I'll be interested to see how your's works.

The dark bread in the pic is actually real pumpernickel, i.e. dark grains as a whole pressed together making a very dense bread that is - a complex carb. So, this bread will not be disrupting the low carb diet much anyways... and should satisfy carb cravings.

When you said dark bread I assumed the US version was meant, which is just plain carbs, not complex at all.

Pork - I still don't get it.

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29-10-2012, 02:36 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 11:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  All meat has as much fat as you leave on it.

No, that's not right. Certain cuts of beef like Tenderloin, Ribeye, or NY strip have a lot of fat interspersed with the muscle that you can't trim away. The fat marbling is what makes them so tender and succulent. Curiously, over the years I have lost my taste for them and now always opt for sirloin which is chewier but I think has more flavor.

(29-10-2012 11:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  You also get a slice of bread for breakfast - ultra carb. So it's not an actual low carb diet...

That dense slice of pumpernickel Leela shows in her breakfast is fine. It has virtually no impact on blood sugars. I know, I've tested it. It is also entirely inedible without a runny egg yolk on top of it.

(29-10-2012 01:40 PM)Malleus Wrote:  Once a week for pleasure will have to be enough - though I keep hearing that pork is now making them feel kinda sick even in that once a week when no rules apply so they stopped eating it willingly altogether.

The fuck's up with a cheat day? That's bullshit and the pork is nothing more than a red herring. The cheat day is making them feel kinda sick 'cause they load up on sugars and flour and other shit, don't have nothing to do with pork. There are no fucking cheat days in Girly's diet. Lost my sweet tooth long ago, don't miss it.

Been doing Paleo since I first got diagnosed with the prediabetes some 6 years ago now. Down to 210 lbs from 280 at the time of diagnosis. My sugars are good and I'm holding off the diabetes train. 'Course I'm also supplementing testosterone so your mileage may vary.

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29-10-2012, 02:40 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 02:36 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 11:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  All meat has as much fat as you leave on it.

No, that's not right. Certain cuts of beef like Tenderloin, Ribeye, or NY strip have a lot of fat interspersed with the muscle that you can't trim away. The fat marbling is what makes them so tender and succulent. Curiously, over the years I have lost my taste for them and now always opt for sirloin which is chewier but I think has more flavor.

(29-10-2012 11:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  You also get a slice of bread for breakfast - ultra carb. So it's not an actual low carb diet...

That dense slice of pumpernickel Leela shows in her breakfast is fine. It has virtually no impact on blood sugars. I know, I've tested it. It is also entirely inedible without a runny egg yolk on top of it.

(29-10-2012 01:40 PM)Malleus Wrote:  Once a week for pleasure will have to be enough - though I keep hearing that pork is now making them feel kinda sick even in that once a week when no rules apply so they stopped eating it willingly altogether.

The fuck's up with a cheat day? That's bullshit and the pork is nothing more than a red herring. The cheat day is making them feel kinda sick 'cause they load up on sugars and flour and other shit, don't have nothing to do with pork. There are no fucking cheat days in Girly's diet. Lost my sweet tooth long ago, don't miss it.

Been doing Paleo since I first got diagnosed with the prediabetes some 6 years ago now. Down to 210 lbs from 280 at the time of diagnosis. My sugars are good and I'm holding off the diabetes train. 'Course I'm also supplementing testosterone so your mileage may vary.

So pork is seafood? It all makes sense.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-10-2012, 02:42 PM
RE: Leela & Malleus on Diet
(29-10-2012 02:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(29-10-2012 12:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  I hear stuff like this all the time. Is there any science to support this?

The way I understand it, the body burns either carbs or fat for energy. In presence of both, the fat gets stored and is bad news. In absence of carbs, fat gets burned for energy.

I don't think it works that way, but I will research it. I will go eat some more doughnuts.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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