Leela's spirituality: About the soul
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08-02-2012, 01:44 PM (This post was last modified: 08-02-2012 02:02 PM by Leela.)
Question Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Hi everybody

So this is not about any christian topic, just warning.
It's about the belief system I am coming from.
I am not believing since about 2 years, I mean strongly not believing. I had my doubts before that and I had a similar jouney as many of you. The more I tried and searched the less I could believe. My mind kept questioning but still there are certain points that still come up in my mind, those "but what if" things, you know them.

So a few serious questions with a bit of backround for those, who do not know a lot about witchcraft and all that has to do with it.

First part - about the soul

There is a common belief that every person has a soul and a ghost. And it is not the same. And it is super difficult to explain because it sounds very similar. Like the soul is what comes from the last live (reinkarnation, the soul wanders to the next living form to grow) and the ghost is a part of your personality and your experiences. Sounds a bit weird.
Anyway I believed in it. Now I started doubting. First I was rationalising that we have to have these things and that it would be a waste if those things died with the rest of us and go poof. I thought that everything is being recycled, we rot in earth and the worms have good food etc, was perfectly fine with that, and the soul will merge with the ghost and wanders on, too. At least that is how I emerged. Soul and ghost had to go on because they can't go poof if nothing else goes.
Then on the other hand, when my brain didn't stop questioning, first it was, why would there be two things if they will merge anyway? So at that point that was only one for me and my understanding. Then I was like, why would it wander on at all? Nature doesn't care about wasting ressources and I thought about sperm and eggs and how many of those get wasted and all the examples in nature where ressources are simply wasted. So the whole sould wandering thing didn't make much sense anymore. But if the soul doesn't wander that meant that there is no reincarnation either, and I thought I remembered a previous life. So how would that come... etc etc
So rationally by now, I totally understand that all we commonly call "soul" is electrical impulses and exchange of second messengers in my brain.

But I still sometimes have that tiny voice in me that's like
...but what if there is a soul that wanders?
What if I make the next life hell because I don't take good care in this one?
What if my sould wanders into someone who already will have bad luck and I make that persons life even worse because I didn't take good care of my soul....
Why waste it all?
Why not keep some spiritual practices for my soul so it is prepared and can grow?

And I honestly need input on this because I am going in circles here.
It's annoying that I have to keep convincing myself, especially being a very rational person and knowing there is no logic reason to believe in that.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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08-02-2012, 02:46 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Leela, I used to be fascinated with supernatural stuff. I read the books, watched the shows - if someone said a house was haunted I was the first one to go in it and look around. This is all a long time ago. Over time though it became clear that none of it held up to scrutiny, and the people making the claims had no credibility. I finally realized that the best explanation for thousands of years of supernatural claims was not that there was any validity to it, but that it all stemmed from misunderstandings, lack of education, being scared, wilful misrepresentations, charlatans, etc etc etc.

There is nothing to suggest that any of it is real. No ghosts, no soul, no witchcraft.

I suggest that you focus on what we know is real. Take good care of yourself now. Stay away from people who aren't good for you now. Develop your mind and body now.
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08-02-2012, 04:24 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
I really love your wiccan story’s Leela. It’s so refreshing from the regular bible thumping and the boring RC blahblah.

In the last years of my religious times I used the concept of the continuity of energy to proof that there is such a thing as a soul as all your electrical "contacts" in your brain need to remain their energy somewhere.

Of course this is a fallacy.

Now I was wondering...
Why do you really NEED to get rid of that soul concept. As long as it is just a way for you to visualise the theoretical concept of your existence, i don't see any problem with it. There's no harm in personal bellieves as long as you don't start pushing them upon others.

I always picture the "two system mind" as an inner caveman and an inner teenager constantly battling over the control of my body. Quit funny and insightful on many occasions. Know it’s a fallacy but it helps me a lot.

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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08-02-2012, 04:29 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
(08-02-2012 02:46 PM)Jeff Wrote:  Leela, I used to be fascinated with supernatural stuff. I read the books, watched the shows - if someone said a house was haunted I was the first one to go in it and look around. This is all a long time ago. Over time though it became clear that none of it held up to scrutiny, and the people making the claims had no credibility. I finally realized that the best explanation for thousands of years of supernatural claims was not that there was any validity to it, but that it all stemmed from misunderstandings, lack of education, being scared, wilful misrepresentations, charlatans, etc etc etc.

There is nothing to suggest that any of it is real. No ghosts, no soul, no witchcraft.

I suggest that you focus on what we know is real. Take good care of yourself now. Stay away from people who aren't good for you now. Develop your mind and body now.

It is very smart to look to emperical science and rationality and get along with whatever we understand and can ethically do best.

As for the soul ,science cannot prove its existence or non existence as we are dealing with an unknown realm, at least in terms of our accrued abilities to understand the world.I am opposed, rather, to organized religions than to what an eternal experience may be all about, but realize the futility of pursueing the latter too strongly also.

I agree that a very large percentage of occult stuff stems from charlatans, superstition, ignorance, profit, madness etc..........but all of it? that I would question.
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08-02-2012, 04:41 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Observer:
I have never said that I used to be wiccan Wink There are tons of branches at witchcraft, wiccan is one but not mine. It's a bit like catholic, protestant, orthodox,.... just more complicated. Anyway thanks for the compliment.
I need to get rid of it because what I learned was not a concept but a real thing, like god is not a concept but a real thing for some. And it is part of other teachings and it is the ground for essential believes in the whole witchcraft and esotheric world. Gods real existence is as believable as a souls real existence. It makes no sense, it is not logical, and the teachings about it are absolutely bogus. btw I keep telling myself exactly that but the "what if" comes back anyway.
plus the personal belief in all honor but I do not want to just believe in something, I want to know if it is true or not or at least how likely something is to be true or not.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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08-02-2012, 10:28 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
One of the most difficult things about breaking from a belief is that you once believed it and there is something that "sticks" in your head for some time.
This does go away after a while. I can't compare it to anything else. It’s not like quitting smoking, or quitting drinking if you’re an alcoholic. It is a very unique mental experience.

When some people break away they immediately become resentful of the religious indoctrination and they literally hate the religion. I consider them lucky.
It took me about a year after I dropped the belief in my head to “explode” on someone who tried to tell me that I was making a monumental mistake. I believe this was a year of angst building up. They just stepped on that nerve and they got an earful.

This is a very personal journey for all of us, but at the same time a very healthy one.

I hope things work out for you on your journey.

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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09-02-2012, 12:07 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Is Leela really a closet Wiccan? Confused Angel
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09-02-2012, 12:13 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
It sounds like, whether or not you posses these 21 grams, you are taking good care of your soul. You are concerned, and from what I've seen here on TTA you are a great person.
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09-02-2012, 01:50 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
I really would just like to be some warlock necromancer drunk dude with a fetish for raising dead things and getting them drunk and sending them off back into town on an early sunday morning before sunrise to fuck with the churches in the morning... .... but... gotta stick with reality.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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09-02-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: About the soul
But how do you guys deal when you get that what if feeling and logically you know but your feeling wants to push you back into all the crazy stuff?

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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