Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
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07-12-2012, 01:00 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(07-12-2012 12:01 PM)Impulse Wrote:  Irishdize,

You're discussing multiple things:

1) conning vs. stealing
2) practices/beliefs of Satanism
3) Unitarian Universalism

For most of my discussion with you, I have focused on #3 and it becomes difficult when you interject #1 and #2 in your replies to me.

1) I agree conning and stealing are not exactly the same thing, but so what? They are both dishonest and result in cheating people out of their money or belongings. So technical definitions make no difference in terms of rightness or wrongness. You justify this in your mind by saying they give you money for fake services of their own free will, but 1) that doesn't justify it and 2) they don't give you money for fake services, they give you money for REAL services so paying for the crap you provide is NOT of their own free will. They don't know what they are paying for so how could it be from their free will? What a bunch of horse shit!

2) I have understood throughout our discussion that your actions are consistent with the Satanism that you follow. If you are happy with that, so be it. You have taught me that Satanism isn't really all that different from its stereotype and I would follow Christianity again before I would even consider following Satanism - and that's saying a lot because I will never again follow Christianity. The Biblical Satan is the king of deception. It seems to me you follow that Satan after all despite claims to the contrary. As such, why should I believe a word you have to say anyway? You're willing to lie to get what you want and in doing so you undermine your own credibility. Dishonesty is NEVER worth it. You brag about how smart you are, but your failure to understand that makes you quite stupid in that regard in my opinion.

3) Satanism and Unitarian Universalism are not compatible no matter how much you may try to make them fit in your own mind.

As for Jason Bane your fellow Satanist, did you really expect him not to side with you? That proves nothing except that both of you believe the same crap.

I really have nothing else I want to discuss with you in this thread. You will never convince me that your conning, cheating, and taking advantage of other people is anything other than completely loathsome.
1. If I was attempting to Justify and rationalize conning over stealing it would indicate that I believed theft was wrong and conning was not wrong, however, I DONT. I dont believe in wrong and right, I am not of the right hand path moral system, I believe in doing that which benefits me at all times, if theft benefits me, I will do it, if lying benefits me, I wlll do it, I working as a con man benefits me I will do it, That is what you do not understand, its not about right and wrong. All Psychics are FAKE, They are paying me for only what they believe is a real service because they believe in superstitious and supernatural bullshit-Therefore they are paying me out of their own beliefs and their own free will, with a little critical thinking skills in their lives, they may come to realize that I am not a real Psychic and that in fact no one is but they are not smart enough to use that. In truth, they deserve what they get. You are trying to argue your set of values and morals against mine when I believe firmly that morals are subjective-what is right for you may not be right for me, obviously.
2. The Majority of Satanists are very honest and trustworthy people (most of the time-Just like anyone else actually) we lie only when it benefits us to do so and in most cases it does not. I do not like for example to my friends and family because it does not have any reward in doing so, I do not lie to my friends because I would lost their trust and I do not wish to do that, In similar vein, I would never steal from someone willy nilly because I might be arrested, beaten, lose their friendship, whatever the case may be, I would only steal if they cried out to be relieved and very rarely does this happen with most people, I would never cheat on my partner because Ive been through that and I know what its like and it would hurt someone I love very much, I have morals and I have ethics and values, they are just different from your morals and values and thats fine. Being a Satanist is about doing what makes you feel good and doing that which benefits you but you are under the impression that we are all liars and con men and the vast majority of Satanists work in fields such as music (marilyn manson, sammy davis Jr) and some are actors who lie to their audiences who know theyre being lied to, writers, teachers, scientists, doctors, etc, However, there are some Satanists who for whatever reason take lesser magic as their proffession, for me being raised in Witchcraft, I started reading cards when I was a believer and I worked as a Psychic and healer for years, opened up my store and made a ton of money, built a strong client base and still believed in it but when I lost my faith, I chose to keep my business up and running, Satanists say to do what we are good at-I am good at this job so I choose to continue to do it. For me and my morals-It is fine.
3. I do not care if you find my beliefs and practices loathsome, I do not care of your opinion at all, I have gotten past that insecure state in my life where I care what others think about me, especially when they are wrong-I consider myself to be a very moral, loyal, giving, compassionate person, all qualities that UUs are known for and of course the 2 religions are compatible but this depends greatly on how willing each is to open up to the other's beliefs and practices, a Satanist who HATES Wiccans for example and sees them as silly fucks probably would not work out in the church but a Satanist like me who has tolerance for other religions and believes there is truth to be found in all places would be a welcome addiction to any UU church.
I wrote and asked a different UU church-Is it possible to be a Satanist and a UU, I told them I was just curious and I did not mention I was already both and their reply was:
UU is a very open and accepting congregation that welcomes all faiths. This would include Satanism.

However, if anyone was a true Satanist-a materialist who found little to no value in spirituality. I doubt they would want to be affiliated with an all-welcoming group like UU. Still yes, it is possible.
I am a materialist, I believe in objective reality and yet I am very spiritual, I love the rituals contained in Satanism and I am open minded when it comes to other religions, I do not hate other religions like some Satanists may or may not, I think they can be quite silly at times and I think the fundamentalist strands are dangerous and should be eliminated but what about religions like, sufism? There is nothing dangerous about it, its a very cool religion with very loving and kind people, I loved living with them and learning about their culture and practices and I look forward to more learning when I have a commune I am going to later in Jan. Smile
So Yes, UU and Satanism are compatible but it depends again on the Satanist and the compromises he/she is willing to make.
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07-12-2012, 02:49 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
Irishdize Wrote:  A robber is a thief which Satanist deem to be wrong,

Irishdize Wrote:  Taking something from someone without their permission is wrong to me, I have never stolen from someone and I never will.

Irishdize Wrote:  I do not steal, That would be wrong and I agree 100%,

and then the truth comes out...

Irishdize Wrote:  1. If I was attempting to Justify and rationalize conning over stealing it would indicate that I believed theft was wrong and conning was not wrong, however, I DONT. I dont believe in wrong and right, I am not of the right hand path moral system, I believe in doing that which benefits me at all times, if theft benefits me, I will do it, if lying benefits me, I wlll do it, I working as a con man benefits me I will do it,
Like I said, how can we believe a word you say. You're a liar. Drinking Beverage

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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08-12-2012, 01:10 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(07-12-2012 02:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
Irishdize Wrote:  A robber is a thief which Satanist deem to be wrong,

Irishdize Wrote:  Taking something from someone without their permission is wrong to me, I have never stolen from someone and I never will.

Irishdize Wrote:  I do not steal, That would be wrong and I agree 100%,

and then the truth comes out...

Irishdize Wrote:  1. If I was attempting to Justify and rationalize conning over stealing it would indicate that I believed theft was wrong and conning was not wrong, however, I DONT. I dont believe in wrong and right, I am not of the right hand path moral system, I believe in doing that which benefits me at all times, if theft benefits me, I will do it, if lying benefits me, I wlll do it, I working as a con man benefits me I will do it,
Like I said, how can we believe a word you say. You're a liar. Drinking Beverage


The only contradiction is the one you are attempting to make.
1. I do not steal because stealing does not benefit me. If something benefits me, Its ok to do as long as I am willing to live with the consequences of my actions and not blame anyone or anything external to myself. I also would never murder someone, but if it benefits me in the long run to murder someone and I am willing to deal with the consequences, Satanism does not say its right or wrong, you seem to think I am advocating theft and murder here, no, what I am saying is that there are NO morals/values, no right and wrong, nothing that is set in stone, we are to do at all times that which makes us feel good, money makes me feel good, I love it, I am very greedy (there is nothing wrong with that unless its wrong TO YOU) morals and values are subjective, what you consider as wrong, I may not.
Some Satanists love sex, they have to have it, they will cheat on their lovers, have sex with married women/men, seduce their bosses, call on hookers, Its not for me because I dont believe in cheating, it would not benefit me in the long run to throw away what I have looked for all of my life for a quick fling but for those that it would benefit, Go for it, there is nothing wrong with it objectively, its just wrong FOR ME.
I am a very honest person actually In RL. It does not benefit me MOST OF THE TIME to lie but I will on occasion tell a lie, for example, my bf needs a bed, his waterbed exploded and he hasnt had the money to buy one, I found one on Craigslist in the plastic wrap but only because its been refurnished-my bf would not buy that because its been used, I lied to him and told him it was brand new and I bought it for him. It was beneficial in that moment to lie and what he doesnt know doesnt really harm him long term and he needs the bed. But I dont lie about much else to him because that doesnt benefit me, I want an open and loving and trusting relationship.
I do my best to help others and be a nice person, today at the grocery store an elderly woman behind me was having problems bagging her groceries-at food 4 less you have to bag your stuff yourself, I asked her if she needed help, It benefited me to do so because I felt compassion, something you guys seem to think I lack, she declined my help. It was simply the right thing to offer (for me) because I felt it was right-It in reality had no true value of right/wrong.
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08-12-2012, 02:43 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(03-12-2012 05:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-12-2012 05:25 PM)Chas Wrote:  They say there is some secret code
that Girly wrote, or so I'm told.
But you don't really care for coding, do ya?

It went like this, in Forth and Lisp,
and Modula, not to mention Bliss;
a baffled guy composing calculation.

Calculation!
Calculation.
Calculation!
Calcula-a-a-ation.

Girly sings that shit in C#.


With a lisp.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-12-2012, 02:56 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(08-12-2012 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-12-2012 05:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Girly sings that shit in C#.


With a lisp.

Thee tharp ?
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08-12-2012, 05:48 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(08-12-2012 01:10 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(07-12-2012 02:49 PM)Impulse Wrote:  and then the truth comes out...

Like I said, how can we believe a word you say. You're a liar. Drinking Beverage


The only contradiction is the one you are attempting to make.
1. I do not steal because stealing does not benefit me. If something benefits me, Its ok to do as long as I am willing to live with the consequences of my actions and not blame anyone or anything external to myself. I also would never murder someone, but if it benefits me in the long run to murder someone and I am willing to deal with the consequences, Satanism does not say its right or wrong, you seem to think I am advocating theft and murder here, no, what I am saying is that there are NO morals/values, no right and wrong, nothing that is set in stone, we are to do at all times that which makes us feel good, money makes me feel good, I love it, I am very greedy (there is nothing wrong with that unless its wrong TO YOU) morals and values are subjective, what you consider as wrong, I may not.
Some Satanists love sex, they have to have it, they will cheat on their lovers, have sex with married women/men, seduce their bosses, call on hookers, Its not for me because I dont believe in cheating, it would not benefit me in the long run to throw away what I have looked for all of my life for a quick fling but for those that it would benefit, Go for it, there is nothing wrong with it objectively, its just wrong FOR ME.
I am a very honest person actually In RL. It does not benefit me MOST OF THE TIME to lie but I will on occasion tell a lie, for example, my bf needs a bed, his waterbed exploded and he hasnt had the money to buy one, I found one on Craigslist in the plastic wrap but only because its been refurnished-my bf would not buy that because its been used, I lied to him and told him it was brand new and I bought it for him. It was beneficial in that moment to lie and what he doesnt know doesnt really harm him long term and he needs the bed. But I dont lie about much else to him because that doesnt benefit me, I want an open and loving and trusting relationship.
I do my best to help others and be a nice person, today at the grocery store an elderly woman behind me was having problems bagging her groceries-at food 4 less you have to bag your stuff yourself, I asked her if she needed help, It benefited me to do so because I felt compassion, something you guys seem to think I lack, she declined my help. It was simply the right thing to offer (for me) because I felt it was right-It in reality had no true value of right/wrong.
What you're not understanding is your own words speak for themselves. Drinking Beverage

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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08-12-2012, 07:08 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(08-12-2012 05:48 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 01:10 AM)Irishdize Wrote:  The only contradiction is the one you are attempting to make.
1. I do not steal because stealing does not benefit me. If something benefits me, Its ok to do as long as I am willing to live with the consequences of my actions and not blame anyone or anything external to myself. I also would never murder someone, but if it benefits me in the long run to murder someone and I am willing to deal with the consequences, Satanism does not say its right or wrong, you seem to think I am advocating theft and murder here, no, what I am saying is that there are NO morals/values, no right and wrong, nothing that is set in stone, we are to do at all times that which makes us feel good, money makes me feel good, I love it, I am very greedy (there is nothing wrong with that unless its wrong TO YOU) morals and values are subjective, what you consider as wrong, I may not.
Some Satanists love sex, they have to have it, they will cheat on their lovers, have sex with married women/men, seduce their bosses, call on hookers, Its not for me because I dont believe in cheating, it would not benefit me in the long run to throw away what I have looked for all of my life for a quick fling but for those that it would benefit, Go for it, there is nothing wrong with it objectively, its just wrong FOR ME.
I am a very honest person actually In RL. It does not benefit me MOST OF THE TIME to lie but I will on occasion tell a lie, for example, my bf needs a bed, his waterbed exploded and he hasnt had the money to buy one, I found one on Craigslist in the plastic wrap but only because its been refurnished-my bf would not buy that because its been used, I lied to him and told him it was brand new and I bought it for him. It was beneficial in that moment to lie and what he doesnt know doesnt really harm him long term and he needs the bed. But I dont lie about much else to him because that doesnt benefit me, I want an open and loving and trusting relationship.
I do my best to help others and be a nice person, today at the grocery store an elderly woman behind me was having problems bagging her groceries-at food 4 less you have to bag your stuff yourself, I asked her if she needed help, It benefited me to do so because I felt compassion, something you guys seem to think I lack, she declined my help. It was simply the right thing to offer (for me) because I felt it was right-It in reality had no true value of right/wrong.
What you're not understanding is your own words speak for themselves. Drinking Beverage

What you do not understand is that some people here yourself included are too stupid to understand Satanism, that has very little to do with my conveying what we believe in or practice. Drinking Beverage
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08-12-2012, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 08-12-2012 07:20 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(08-12-2012 02:56 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 02:43 PM)Chas Wrote:  With a lisp.

Thee tharp ?

Haskell claims past is Prolog. Wink

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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08-12-2012, 09:36 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(08-12-2012 07:08 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 05:48 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What you're not understanding is your own words speak for themselves. Drinking Beverage

What you do not understand is that some people here yourself included are too stupid to understand Satanism, that has very little to do with my conveying what we believe in or practice. Drinking Beverage
No, we understand it. You don't understand how we don't think it's respectful or respectable.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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09-12-2012, 01:29 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(08-12-2012 09:36 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(08-12-2012 07:08 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  What you do not understand is that some people here yourself included are too stupid to understand Satanism, that has very little to do with my conveying what we believe in or practice. Drinking Beverage
No, we understand it. You don't understand how we don't think it's respectful or respectable.


I understand that perfectly.
I simply believe that non theistic spiritualities and atheism have much in common and instead of bickering about our differences, we should in a sense be allies, the only difference I see between the two is that 'generally and usually' the atheist rejects spirituality but in reality an atheist is a person who rejects belief in god, this does not mean that the person has to stop being spiritual in any sense and that is the difference here, I have maintained a sense of spirituality, where you have not and so we have become enemies, its stupid.
Same with Naturalistic Pagans and Non theist Witches whether they be Naturalistic, atheist, Satanist or whatever seem to be at odds with atheists when there is no need, all of these are non theistic paths with ritual added in so why the huge fight? So, a person finds comfort in lighting candles and spirit dancing or in meditating in the woods or by the ocean or someone likes to attend a UU church.
Oh well. Smile I give up. You win. I am done.
Next topic please! Dodgy Exclamation
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