Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
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02-07-2012, 08:17 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
there there, this is split now. So here we can go back ontopic, herbs in the other thing please Smile
Thank you Hughsie


Now Chas, for your info (and I don't care if you are pissed already). It is not us who missed a point. It is you who cherry picked one of many examples I gave, to show that everything is either bogus or dangerous in witchcraft. You actually picked from the examples where I clearly stated that I (me, only me) still find these things useful. So it can totally be your opinion that you don't find these things, I listed, useful, but rather dangerous. You could have simply stated it like that, and the whole mess would have been avoided. Plus there is no burden of proof in any of the things that have been said because no claims have been made, you treat my opinion as a claim, it was not. It is my opinion, I don't have to prove my opinion and you don't have to share it.
If this thread upsets you so much that you have to start acting rude, what about doing yourself and everyone else a favor and simply ignore this thread.


Let's move on. I think Girly or Erx stated they had ontopic questions. Bring it on.
And no Erx Big Grin there are no spells that enlargen your manlyhood haha Tongue

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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02-07-2012, 08:21 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(01-07-2012 03:46 PM)Leela Wrote:  edit: nvm I'm pissed

Hey Leela - Thanks for this thread. I found it interesting. The town I live in has a large Wiccan/Pagan/Witch population. I never thought about how they viewed Crowley and after reading this realized I never see anything by him in their shops. It is hard to tell how many serious practioners there are because it's become such a main staple of the towns economy (Salem Ma.). I will give them one thing, they never bother anyone, whenever somebody is yelling about religion in our town square, it is always a Christian.

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
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02-07-2012, 09:23 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(02-07-2012 08:17 AM)Leela Wrote:  there there, this is split now. So here we can go back ontopic, herbs in the other thing please Smile
Thank you Hughsie


Now Chas, for your info (and I don't care if you are pissed already). It is not us who missed a point. It is you who cherry picked one of many examples I gave, to show that everything is either bogus or dangerous in witchcraft. You actually picked from the examples where I clearly stated that I (me, only me) still find these things useful. So it can totally be your opinion that you don't find these things, I listed, useful, but rather dangerous. You could have simply stated it like that, and the whole mess would have been avoided. Plus there is no burden of proof in any of the things that have been said because no claims have been made, you treat my opinion as a claim, it was not. It is my opinion, I don't have to prove my opinion and you don't have to share it.
If this thread upsets you so much that you have to start acting rude, what about doing yourself and everyone else a favor and simply ignore this thread.


Let's move on. I think Girly or Erx stated they had ontopic questions. Bring it on.
And no Erx Big Grin there are no spells that enlargen your manlyhood haha Tongue
What you said:
Quote:they mix useful things in and teach them the exact same way, as facts.
They teach about herbs and how to use them to heal (and yes, that does
indeed work)
That is you making a claim. I did not say "everything is either bogus or dangerous in witchcraft". I pointed out that your claim was questionable.

You have misunderstood my statements on this and ignored my other contributions to the thread, including a pretty good word play.
Quote:Got any published double-blind trials? Or only witch trials? [Image: biggrin.gif]
Or the point I tried to get back on topic.
Quote:I am intensely interested in your experience with witchcraft - I am curious about beliefs. [Image: thumbsup.gif]
So, again, I don't know what got you so annoyed except possibly a misunderstanding of what I said.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-07-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
ok chas, in that case let's just move on. It might have been a misunderstanding on both sides.

Kid: Yes, that is one of the things so important to witches > respect others but don't bother them. It is not a rule that you have to learn there, it is simply something that you understand from the reactions you get of your own kind.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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02-07-2012, 03:31 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
Just letting you all know that the Herbs split from this thread has been moved to the Health and Psychology section.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
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Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
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Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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02-07-2012, 04:00 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
Personally, I think it is very cool you were a witch. My parents would never allow me to do such a thing, so I usually try to read about it.

Now I have a few questions:

Do you know if there are any types of witchcraft(whatever you call it) that can coincide with Christianity?

Now... When you say you were taught one on one, and it was in secret, could there be a possibility that one of the previous teacher made a mistake on teaching your teacher, and thus you were taught the wrong method?

And the final one:

What house were you sorted into?

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02-07-2012, 05:58 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
Can you teleport or ride a broom?

Do you have a big black cauldron that you mix potions in?

Do you have a black cat?

Do you have warts on your nose?

Do you know any spells that require adding Eye of Newt?

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02-07-2012, 06:44 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(02-07-2012 08:17 AM)Leela Wrote:  Let's move on. I think Girly or Erx stated they had ontopic questions. Bring it on.

Yes, I am interested in Wiccan metaphysics. Is it doctrinal or is each witch free to choose their own? Is there a consistent position on the postmortem preservation of identity or any sort of afterlife?

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
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03-07-2012, 03:19 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(02-07-2012 04:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Do you know if there are any types of witchcraft(whatever you call it) that can coincide with Christianity?
Yes there are. Especially the gypsy witchcrafts. Often the witches in the gypsy circles are highly respected and Christians. They would tell you that god gave them the gift of witchcraft... Sounds fucked up and indeed, it is, considering the witchhunts were mainly done by Chrisians.

(02-07-2012 04:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  Now... When you say you were taught one on one, and it was in secret, could there be a possibility that one of the previous teacher made a mistake on teaching your teacher, and thus you were taught the wrong method?
Of course there is a possibility. On the other side I don't think that the possibility is very high. The basics are the same for everyone, and taught to you for many years. You will be corrected over and over again until you do it right. At some point you will, of course develop your own rituals in addition, but even they will follow the basic rules that you were taught.
Those rules are different from branch to branch. Some will do a lot with candles, others do a lot of "energy work", others dance around a fire

(02-07-2012 04:00 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  What house were you sorted into?
Griffindor

(02-07-2012 05:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Can you teleport or ride a broom?
Not anymore Big Grin

(02-07-2012 05:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Do you have a big black cauldron that you mix potions in?
Many witches actually do have a cauldron, but it will be a small one and mainly for rituals and not to do actual cooking or mixing poitons. The modern witch has a pot and an oven and will not hesitate to use them Wink

(02-07-2012 05:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Do you have a black cat?
Actually I did have cats, but not black.

(02-07-2012 05:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Do you have warts on your nose?
Not on my nose, no. Tongue

(02-07-2012 05:58 PM)Erxomai Wrote:  Do you know any spells that require adding Eye of Newt?
No? But that doesn't mean there is nothing that will require that thing.

(02-07-2012 06:44 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Yes, I am interested in Wiccan metaphysics. Is it doctrinal or is each witch free to choose their own? Is there a consistent position on the postmortem preservation of identity or any sort of afterlife?
Both. I personally, believed in reincarnation because I was taught so. But part of the respect everyone and everything is to be free of choice what you actually believe in. Especially when you get into it when you are grown up already.

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30-11-2012, 01:29 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-06-2012 08:05 PM)Leela Wrote:  Hi everybody
So this is not about any christian topic, just warning.

It's about the belief system I am coming from.
I am not believing since about 2 years, I mean I strongly don't believe anymore since that time. I had my doubts before that and I had a similar jouney as many of you. The more I tried and searched the less I could believe.

So this time I will answer the questions about:
How is it being taught?

I was a witch for a long long time, ended up in having students and educating those in witchcraft. This is kind of like a priest who only gives religion lessons to one person at a time.
A big difference between "real" witchcraft and other religions is the way how it is being taught. You know from churches the bible lessons on sunday, or the subject "religion" at school, you have a book that you use as a source of your religion, you have a big community around you and a priest who tells you exactly how to believe correctly.
Well this is not correct for the witchcraft I grew up with.
I am not, and never was into the "new age" things. I got the old knowledge, I learnt it from various sources and in a more or less traditional way, my mother, her friend, other witches.
I learnt by watching and imitating. There was no book to read from, there was no real teaching involved. I got all kinds of healing stones and crystals when I was young already, my mother did "hand healing" on me and she taught me how to do it on others. Her friend showed me how to read the cards for someone. I learnt how to use the pendulum when I was 13, I started reading the cards for friends and myself at the same time.

There are two traditional ways to learn witchcraft. One is the way I did, the other way is to have kind of a mentor, a witch that will share her knowledge with you. As I grew up I learnt a few more things but after I moved out I actually found other witches who I became friends with. They taught me more things. A lot of these things are still usefull to me although I am not a believer anymore. (More about that, another time)
So I had to main people who were kind of mentoring me for some time. One was a dark witch (a man) and one was on the way of becoming a druid (also a man).
At some point I had my own student. And I started teaching him lots of things, I gave him his initiation, he got his first notebook and utensiles from me and I taught him lots of things. He was 14 by the time, a very keen young boy, very interested, and eager. He tried to pull tricks on me, but didn't get far with it. I wasn't just his mentor, we had a close relationship, just like in a family. When he was sad or happy or scared or proud, he would tell me.
This is something that is very common in the traditional system.
There is one student, and this student gets all the attention. This student gets all the help needed, all the education. You get pretty close, he saw me as a kind of mother. We had dayly contact, I paid good attention that when he was at my place, his father knew where he was and had my phone number.

Not only the close relationship and attention is what makes traditional witchcraft special.
It is also the way it is being taught.
There is no book you read from. You teach what you learnt for a long time. You have your notebook where you can make notes for yourself, because there might be specific things you would like to have written down. Specific rituals or recipies.
This notebook is a very private thing.
One of the unwritten rules of traditional witchcraft is to never touch or even dare to open another witch's notebook. It is like reading their diary, very private, you just do not do that.

This is why the traditional witchcraft is not really known by people, there are of course some things leaking nowadays, after all we are in a time of internet, of blogs, forums, diaries on the pc....
But still there is no guide to traditional witchcraft on the internet because generally this privacy rule is highly respected. Even if you google it, even if you actually do end up in a forum with "real" witches (as oposed to wannabe smartass witches), even if in such a forum you ask for a mentor, chances are low that you will get one that way. It takes a long time for a "real" witch, a traditional witch, to accept someone as their student. This person has to prove themselves trustworthy and reliable.

For example, when I was making friends with these two "mentors" of mine. It took weeks and nearly dayly conversations to earn their trust, I never betrayed them. They knew what they had in me, they shared a lot of their knowledge with me (a lot of it still useful to me).
And my student? He proved himself worthy to me as well, I did not take him right away. I talked to him a lot, for weeks, before I started sharing my knowledge with him.
Still as you have only one student at a time, you can of course help others with their magical problems or questions.
So at the time, I was active in one forum, where i had two people who would approach me every now and then. They would ask how to improve some of their techniques or just practice with me, things like that.
I also had my own witchcraft forum. I did not share the most important things there, these were only for my student. But I shared a lot of things. I made whole tutorials for several things back then. About runes, about meditation, about other spiritual realms, I did dream reading, and I gave spiritual help to people who asked. Not everyone was accepted on the forum, and not everyone could enter every section.
So I did "teach" some things online, or to befriended witches from real life, but I did indeed concentrate mostly on my student.

Connected to witchcraft you will often read famous names like Aleister Crowley (mostly known for his set of tarot). Most traditional witches though do not respect him or people like him at all. For one, traditional witches are not supposed to take any kind of payment for any of their knowledge, it is a code of honor more or less. Also his teachings are often not correct in terms of traditional witchcraft, at least what's in his books.
There are several of teaching books for several skills. Mirror reading, pendulum, tarot, rituals... They are often incorrect with their tutorials as per tradition.

Questions? Keep them coming Smile

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Previously posted:
Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Leela's spirituality: Ghosts and Energies
Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Brief history of witchcraft
Nice!
I was raised in a Traditional of Witchcraft called Shadakism. We consider ourselves to be Traditional Witches and we consider this to be our religion, the only thing I get irritated by is when I read on a forum or website that says that Wiccans are Witches and there is no such thing as a Traditional Witch or that Witchcraft is simply the practice of magic and not a spiritual path. Magic is the practice of Magic. Witchcraft is my religion, my path, my way of life. Yes, I am still a Witch though not completely Shadak because I do incooperate other teachings and ideas into my path that I wasnt raised with like Satanism.
I also take on students to teach them the ways in which I was raised, I am currently looking for a student now!
My Book of Shadak is very personal and private, I keep it on my altar and no one is allowed to read it, not even my boyfriend or my sister who is my best friend! she is also a Witch but more of an Eclectic these days because she couldnt follow some of the ways we were raised with, they are a bit dogmatic at times to us and we are more free spirits and such.
Im here because even though I dont consider myself an atheist, I am atheistic. The Goddess is The Universe/Nature and the elements and energies contained within and I dont think that is too far away from atheism and Satanism is an atheistic philosophy or religion if you like, I also am a skeptic and tend to fit in better with atheists than I do Pagans because I am not Wiccan and do not think or act like Wiccans, I am not into all of their needs like casting circles and calling corners.
So Yeah, Id love to debate/discuss any Witchy related topics!
Oh and Yes I am working on seeing if Witchcraft and Satanism are imcompatible, if they are one will have to go but right now I havent seen any thing I cant work with or around, I want to read crowley's books just because I am a curious person, same reason I would want to read the conversations with God books even though I have no God beliefs.
But crowley wasnt a Witch or a Satanist. Just a theatrical man. a drama queen Smile
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