Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
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30-11-2012, 01:37 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-06-2012 08:46 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  If there is no shared written tradition, how do you know what is traditional and what is modern? Is it possible that the tradition you learned might have more recent origins than you believed?


Hi
I am sure by the time I post this, Leela has already answered-I havent read ahead. Smile Shadakism however does have written Journals of past members who have died that we take as part of our canon (with their permission) and we have a series of books that are written for the public eye which are codified and kind of brought together to form one 'Bible' which we call The Book of Shadak and then we each have our own personal books that no one is supposed to see until our deaths and only if we allow others to see it then, we can also request that it be burned.
The earliest book I have is from 1879 written by Alisa Howard-i am actually writing a book about her and her experiences but most likely will make it a fictional account and only I and a handful of people need know its based on actual writings.
I however am an Eclectic Witch these days and I have incooperated modern ideas into my practice, for example I am also a Satanist and Pantheistic, I read daily devotionals and use them along with the lots to help aid me in the Sacred Journey-which is our self improvement plan-and instead of following the old ritual structure which is having random ritual days where you cut yourself off from all people, all day and all night and sometimes spend the day in your home and some days outside of the home, i cant do that here and now so I have random ritual days and nights but I still answer the door and the phone and they are always done inside since I cant go outside these days (disabled).
Nothing wrong with a modern Traditional Witch, unless you are isolated in the woods somewhere with no outside contacts, its nearly impossible to not have some kind of infleuence reach you!
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30-11-2012, 01:50 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(01-07-2012 04:34 AM)Leela Wrote:  
(30-06-2012 08:46 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  If there is no shared written tradition, how do you know what is traditional and what is modern? Is it possible that the tradition you learned might have more recent origins than you believed?
Good point!
One of the really big signs is not just the point that you are quiet about it to other's.
The really big importance of this... say, code of honor. It is being talked about, kinda, in witchcraft forums or chats, but alone the fact that they are publishing thins they know so light hearted is already a sign that they did not learn witchcraft the traditional way, because if so, these people would not go public with it. Some are on TV, those astrologers, often they are indeed witches but they either lost their code of honor somewhere between the mountains of money or they never learnt it the traditional way, hence do not know how to be an honorable witch.
Another important thing, there are some written down things, these are the notebooks. There are really old ones. The tradition does not change, so you can find the same rituals and recipies etc, in very old notebooks of witches that are long dead. You can of course inherit these notebooks, but they won't go in print normally. At least I don't know of a *real* notebook that has been printed.

(30-06-2012 10:37 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Leela, are you aware of the forum site that you are on ?
That is my only question.
Yes. You see, atheism does not only mean that one has to come from Christianity as ex-belief. There are a few more theistic directions.
(01-07-2012 03:02 AM)Vipa Wrote:  Since you learned from a dark witch and a druid. What kind of a witch have you been?
What is a dark witch? And what other types are there? (I hope you didn't have to answer those already in another thread ^^)

And on a more story-based interest. Did the student's parents agree with his interest and you teaching him witchcraft?
Ok, the druid and the dark witch came in when I was already an adult and had learnt most of what I knew already. What they did, was more of sharing and good advice, instead of teaching. They gave me a lot of brainstorming when I was stuck somehow. And what was most important, and that was the dark witch, he prevented me from actually sliding into a cult! And that is a really good thing, he just asked me some questions and let me think about it.
Your second part of the question:
Brief history of witchcraft
I can name a few, dark magic, light magic, wicca, druid are the more traditional ones > I got taught in three of them (not wicca), but dark and druidism were just added when I was an adult already.
Now for some more recent boxes, a flying witch, chaos witch. There are more.
I ended up calling myself a chaos witch because it is not so very traditional to mix different kinds of the craft, and when you do it is called chaos magic. So I am a weird mix, I did learn everything in a traditional way, and I taught in a traditional way, but I followed the chaos principal. (You mix the different branches in a way the types of witchcraft do not even each other out and "not work" because they contradict each other. It is almost a science Big Grin
Third part of your question: My student's mother was divorced from his father and did not participate in his life at all. His father did not care a lot but he had my phone number. I made sure that he told his father where he is going. I do not know if he told his father what he is doing when he came over or if he displayed his utensils at home but I would have always been fine with talking to his dead about the whole thing.

1. I was definately raised in Shadakism which is a family tradition of Witchcraft and conidered to be an old way but I do believe in teaching others about our ways which means discussion, debates, questions, answers, Public forums and websites and the like and I will discuss any of the teachings to anyone who asks anywhere to educate and I love to talk about Witchcraft (and other religions-It gets my juices really flowing) but I dont think that means I am not an honorable Witch. Just different ways of looking at things.
There is nothing wrong with money either, I was taught that if someone wants your time and energy, you should make an exchange with that person, now this exchange can be a book, cds, candles, advice, cash, time, energy, it doesnt matter what it is but make an exchange with someone, do not give of yourself freely to everyone you meet or they will and do take advantage of you. I love money!
The Book of Shadak is a private book that the members of the coven I was raised in share, there is only one copy but it has been preserved over the years in one way or another, we have even thought about taking to to Kinko's and having it rebound and maybe the writings printed up to keep the book in good shape but the council voted against that idea 5 years ago and as far as I know, no one has suggested it again.
I am currently writing a book (Im writing a lot of things, screenplays, tv shows, scavenger hunts, books, you name it) which is about Shadakism and may have some of our teachings inside, I do not know, I am not sure what I will make public and what I will keep private, I try not to mention Shadakism that much and if you do a net search on it, you wont find much on it, just a few posts I have made and one by a Witch named Sandy Cristel who was a client at one time of my aunt's and a friend too.
1 because Its a private path and very personal and 2 because I consider myself more of an Eclectic these days, if asked I tell people I am a UU and then a Solitary Eclectic Satanic Witch. Long title but for now its what works. Then I go into details if they ask again.
To me, Dark Magic is just reaching into the darker aspects of the psyche to bring about change, like dancing and raising energy to put a curse on someone to get that anger out of your system, no one is harmed by it and no one knows youve done a curse unless you tell them, Ritual is psychodrama and magic is applied psychology in that sense and fit very well into my beliefs and practices.
Oh, Let me ask a question....when I type replies, I hit enter to go down a couple of spaces in hopes that it will make paragraphs that are readable to the people here but when the post appears on the forum it looks like one long paragraph with no spaces, what am I doing wrong?
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30-11-2012, 01:51 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-06-2012 08:05 PM)Leela Wrote:  Hi everybody
So this is not about any christian topic, just warning.

It's about the belief system I am coming from.
I am not believing since about 2 years, I mean I strongly don't believe anymore since that time. I had my doubts before that and I had a similar jouney as many of you. The more I tried and searched the less I could believe.

So this time I will answer the questions about:
How is it being taught?

I was a witch for a long long time, ended up in having students and educating those in witchcraft. This is kind of like a priest who only gives religion lessons to one person at a time.
A big difference between "real" witchcraft and other religions is the way how it is being taught. You know from churches the bible lessons on sunday, or the subject "religion" at school, you have a book that you use as a source of your religion, you have a big community around you and a priest who tells you exactly how to believe correctly.
Well this is not correct for the witchcraft I grew up with.
I am not, and never was into the "new age" things. I got the old knowledge, I learnt it from various sources and in a more or less traditional way, my mother, her friend, other witches.
I learnt by watching and imitating. There was no book to read from, there was no real teaching involved. I got all kinds of healing stones and crystals when I was young already, my mother did "hand healing" on me and she taught me how to do it on others. Her friend showed me how to read the cards for someone. I learnt how to use the pendulum when I was 13, I started reading the cards for friends and myself at the same time.

There are two traditional ways to learn witchcraft. One is the way I did, the other way is to have kind of a mentor, a witch that will share her knowledge with you. As I grew up I learnt a few more things but after I moved out I actually found other witches who I became friends with. They taught me more things. A lot of these things are still usefull to me although I am not a believer anymore. (More about that, another time)
So I had to main people who were kind of mentoring me for some time. One was a dark witch (a man) and one was on the way of becoming a druid (also a man).
At some point I had my own student. And I started teaching him lots of things, I gave him his initiation, he got his first notebook and utensiles from me and I taught him lots of things. He was 14 by the time, a very keen young boy, very interested, and eager. He tried to pull tricks on me, but didn't get far with it. I wasn't just his mentor, we had a close relationship, just like in a family. When he was sad or happy or scared or proud, he would tell me.
This is something that is very common in the traditional system.
There is one student, and this student gets all the attention. This student gets all the help needed, all the education. You get pretty close, he saw me as a kind of mother. We had dayly contact, I paid good attention that when he was at my place, his father knew where he was and had my phone number.

Not only the close relationship and attention is what makes traditional witchcraft special.
It is also the way it is being taught.
There is no book you read from. You teach what you learnt for a long time. You have your notebook where you can make notes for yourself, because there might be specific things you would like to have written down. Specific rituals or recipies.
This notebook is a very private thing.
One of the unwritten rules of traditional witchcraft is to never touch or even dare to open another witch's notebook. It is like reading their diary, very private, you just do not do that.

This is why the traditional witchcraft is not really known by people, there are of course some things leaking nowadays, after all we are in a time of internet, of blogs, forums, diaries on the pc....
But still there is no guide to traditional witchcraft on the internet because generally this privacy rule is highly respected. Even if you google it, even if you actually do end up in a forum with "real" witches (as oposed to wannabe smartass witches), even if in such a forum you ask for a mentor, chances are low that you will get one that way. It takes a long time for a "real" witch, a traditional witch, to accept someone as their student. This person has to prove themselves trustworthy and reliable.

For example, when I was making friends with these two "mentors" of mine. It took weeks and nearly dayly conversations to earn their trust, I never betrayed them. They knew what they had in me, they shared a lot of their knowledge with me (a lot of it still useful to me).
And my student? He proved himself worthy to me as well, I did not take him right away. I talked to him a lot, for weeks, before I started sharing my knowledge with him.
Still as you have only one student at a time, you can of course help others with their magical problems or questions.
So at the time, I was active in one forum, where i had two people who would approach me every now and then. They would ask how to improve some of their techniques or just practice with me, things like that.
I also had my own witchcraft forum. I did not share the most important things there, these were only for my student. But I shared a lot of things. I made whole tutorials for several things back then. About runes, about meditation, about other spiritual realms, I did dream reading, and I gave spiritual help to people who asked. Not everyone was accepted on the forum, and not everyone could enter every section.
So I did "teach" some things online, or to befriended witches from real life, but I did indeed concentrate mostly on my student.

Connected to witchcraft you will often read famous names like Aleister Crowley (mostly known for his set of tarot). Most traditional witches though do not respect him or people like him at all. For one, traditional witches are not supposed to take any kind of payment for any of their knowledge, it is a code of honor more or less. Also his teachings are often not correct in terms of traditional witchcraft, at least what's in his books.
There are several of teaching books for several skills. Mirror reading, pendulum, tarot, rituals... They are often incorrect with their tutorials as per tradition.

Questions? Keep them coming Smile

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Previously posted:
Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Leela's spirituality: Ghosts and Energies
Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Brief history of witchcraft
What I'm curious about is what keeps a witch believing in it? It's probably just my ignorance on the subject, but I picture a witch casting all these spells that end up not working.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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30-11-2012, 02:26 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-11-2012 01:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What I'm curious about is what keeps a witch believing in it? It's probably just my ignorance on the subject, but I picture a witch casting all these spells that end up not working.
Impulse, meet rationalization. Drinking Beverage

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30-11-2012, 02:40 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-11-2012 01:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(30-06-2012 08:05 PM)Leela Wrote:  Hi everybody
So this is not about any christian topic, just warning.

It's about the belief system I am coming from.
I am not believing since about 2 years, I mean I strongly don't believe anymore since that time. I had my doubts before that and I had a similar jouney as many of you. The more I tried and searched the less I could believe.

So this time I will answer the questions about:
How is it being taught?

I was a witch for a long long time, ended up in having students and educating those in witchcraft. This is kind of like a priest who only gives religion lessons to one person at a time.
A big difference between "real" witchcraft and other religions is the way how it is being taught. You know from churches the bible lessons on sunday, or the subject "religion" at school, you have a book that you use as a source of your religion, you have a big community around you and a priest who tells you exactly how to believe correctly.
Well this is not correct for the witchcraft I grew up with.
I am not, and never was into the "new age" things. I got the old knowledge, I learnt it from various sources and in a more or less traditional way, my mother, her friend, other witches.
I learnt by watching and imitating. There was no book to read from, there was no real teaching involved. I got all kinds of healing stones and crystals when I was young already, my mother did "hand healing" on me and she taught me how to do it on others. Her friend showed me how to read the cards for someone. I learnt how to use the pendulum when I was 13, I started reading the cards for friends and myself at the same time.

There are two traditional ways to learn witchcraft. One is the way I did, the other way is to have kind of a mentor, a witch that will share her knowledge with you. As I grew up I learnt a few more things but after I moved out I actually found other witches who I became friends with. They taught me more things. A lot of these things are still usefull to me although I am not a believer anymore. (More about that, another time)
So I had to main people who were kind of mentoring me for some time. One was a dark witch (a man) and one was on the way of becoming a druid (also a man).
At some point I had my own student. And I started teaching him lots of things, I gave him his initiation, he got his first notebook and utensiles from me and I taught him lots of things. He was 14 by the time, a very keen young boy, very interested, and eager. He tried to pull tricks on me, but didn't get far with it. I wasn't just his mentor, we had a close relationship, just like in a family. When he was sad or happy or scared or proud, he would tell me.
This is something that is very common in the traditional system.
There is one student, and this student gets all the attention. This student gets all the help needed, all the education. You get pretty close, he saw me as a kind of mother. We had dayly contact, I paid good attention that when he was at my place, his father knew where he was and had my phone number.

Not only the close relationship and attention is what makes traditional witchcraft special.
It is also the way it is being taught.
There is no book you read from. You teach what you learnt for a long time. You have your notebook where you can make notes for yourself, because there might be specific things you would like to have written down. Specific rituals or recipies.
This notebook is a very private thing.
One of the unwritten rules of traditional witchcraft is to never touch or even dare to open another witch's notebook. It is like reading their diary, very private, you just do not do that.

This is why the traditional witchcraft is not really known by people, there are of course some things leaking nowadays, after all we are in a time of internet, of blogs, forums, diaries on the pc....
But still there is no guide to traditional witchcraft on the internet because generally this privacy rule is highly respected. Even if you google it, even if you actually do end up in a forum with "real" witches (as oposed to wannabe smartass witches), even if in such a forum you ask for a mentor, chances are low that you will get one that way. It takes a long time for a "real" witch, a traditional witch, to accept someone as their student. This person has to prove themselves trustworthy and reliable.

For example, when I was making friends with these two "mentors" of mine. It took weeks and nearly dayly conversations to earn their trust, I never betrayed them. They knew what they had in me, they shared a lot of their knowledge with me (a lot of it still useful to me).
And my student? He proved himself worthy to me as well, I did not take him right away. I talked to him a lot, for weeks, before I started sharing my knowledge with him.
Still as you have only one student at a time, you can of course help others with their magical problems or questions.
So at the time, I was active in one forum, where i had two people who would approach me every now and then. They would ask how to improve some of their techniques or just practice with me, things like that.
I also had my own witchcraft forum. I did not share the most important things there, these were only for my student. But I shared a lot of things. I made whole tutorials for several things back then. About runes, about meditation, about other spiritual realms, I did dream reading, and I gave spiritual help to people who asked. Not everyone was accepted on the forum, and not everyone could enter every section.
So I did "teach" some things online, or to befriended witches from real life, but I did indeed concentrate mostly on my student.

Connected to witchcraft you will often read famous names like Aleister Crowley (mostly known for his set of tarot). Most traditional witches though do not respect him or people like him at all. For one, traditional witches are not supposed to take any kind of payment for any of their knowledge, it is a code of honor more or less. Also his teachings are often not correct in terms of traditional witchcraft, at least what's in his books.
There are several of teaching books for several skills. Mirror reading, pendulum, tarot, rituals... They are often incorrect with their tutorials as per tradition.

Questions? Keep them coming Smile

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Previously posted:
Leela's spirituality: About the soul
Leela's spirituality: Ghosts and Energies
Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Brief history of witchcraft
What I'm curious about is what keeps a witch believing in it? It's probably just my ignorance on the subject, but I picture a witch casting all these spells that end up not working.

Well on spells that dont work, there are 2 perspectives that I can speak from.
1. My sisters
she does spells like, making her husband regret cheating on her and the next day he goes to the lake to go fishing, his car breaks down, his pole breaks and he gets a rash down there and she looks at this and says wow, my spell worked, she attributes coincidence in other words to her spell working and so this convinces her that it worked and she stays with it.
2. Mine
The spells I do are all based on applied psychology and psychodrama and of course do work in the mind which is where they are supposed to work.
Do spells really work? Could be. I dont think so but I could be wrong. but a Witch is a lot more than spells and magic, thats just one small part of being a Witch which is about attuning yourselves with The Goddess and following a way of life. That is why Witches stay I imagine. Smile
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30-11-2012, 03:13 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-11-2012 01:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What I'm curious about is what keeps a witch believing in it? It's probably just my ignorance on the subject, but I picture a witch casting all these spells that end up not working.
I'd imagine it's the same mechanisms that keep a Christian believing in prayer when it doesn't work.

Though I have known witches who claim you have to believe it hard enough, you have to be fully concentrating on the spell, your spells won't work if the other person's magic is more powerful, etc. So if it doesn't work, they could say, "Well, I guess I wasn't giving it my total concentration," etc.

That, and they don't usually cast spells that defy the laws of physics, so it's more like wishful thinking toward something that may be likely to happen anyway.
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30-11-2012, 03:40 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-11-2012 01:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What I'm curious about is what keeps a witch believing in it? It's probably just my ignorance on the subject, but I picture a witch casting all these spells that end up not working.
As I pointed out before. It is just like praying. People who pray also ignore the fact that it doesn't work. As a witch you will always find something that proves that you spell or ritual worked. If it did not work, you will find an excuse why it didn't.



@ Irishdize: I think we just learnt different "rules". At least that is my guess. I mean, yes of course I did find some rituals in forums that I started using because I liked them a lot but I never posted any. I posted other things, mostly I read dreams and cards for people. And I chose those people very well, they were helpful fo rme too. So yes, I am all for an exchange, as you pointed out, completely for free is unfair for yourself. But I would never have accepted money for anything that was not out of my shop. And those on TV with their Tarots are mostly frauds so they only see money, nothing else, and I despise that.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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30-11-2012, 05:49 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-11-2012 03:40 PM)Leela Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 01:51 PM)Impulse Wrote:  What I'm curious about is what keeps a witch believing in it? It's probably just my ignorance on the subject, but I picture a witch casting all these spells that end up not working.
As I pointed out before. It is just like praying. People who pray also ignore the fact that it doesn't work. As a witch you will always find something that proves that you spell or ritual worked. If it did not work, you will find an excuse why it didn't.



@ Irishdize: I think we just learnt different "rules". At least that is my guess. I mean, yes of course I did find some rituals in forums that I started using because I liked them a lot but I never posted any. I posted other things, mostly I read dreams and cards for people. And I chose those people very well, they were helpful fo rme too. So yes, I am all for an exchange, as you pointed out, completely for free is unfair for yourself. But I would never have accepted money for anything that was not out of my shop. And those on TV with their Tarots are mostly frauds so they only see money, nothing else, and I despise that.


My friend is a phone and personal psychic, she is a fake though, admits she is a fake and loves money that she gets for her services but she is also a Satanist and says that loving money is not wrong and that if people are dumb enough to fall for her shit then she should have at it, I would tend to agree on all of the above.
Also I think that all psychics whether they know it or not are fake, I am not denying Intuition which I think we all have on some level and are born with and I am not denying those weird experiences that I have had that seemed Psychic at the time but I think we have an incredible ability to decieve ourselves into thinking we are gifted and thats how spells work, we trick ourseves into believing that the coincidental thing that has just happened was because WE are magical and brought it into our lives!
To each their own though on the first part of this post. Smile
I like con artists myself and liars. Smile
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01-12-2012, 06:45 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
Irishdize, look at the boxing ring Smile

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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01-12-2012, 08:00 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: How is magic being taught?
(30-11-2012 05:49 PM)Irishdize Wrote:  
(30-11-2012 03:40 PM)Leela Wrote:  As I pointed out before. It is just like praying. People who pray also ignore the fact that it doesn't work. As a witch you will always find something that proves that you spell or ritual worked. If it did not work, you will find an excuse why it didn't.



@ Irishdize: I think we just learnt different "rules". At least that is my guess. I mean, yes of course I did find some rituals in forums that I started using because I liked them a lot but I never posted any. I posted other things, mostly I read dreams and cards for people. And I chose those people very well, they were helpful fo rme too. So yes, I am all for an exchange, as you pointed out, completely for free is unfair for yourself. But I would never have accepted money for anything that was not out of my shop. And those on TV with their Tarots are mostly frauds so they only see money, nothing else, and I despise that.


My friend is a phone and personal psychic, she is a fake though, admits she is a fake and loves money that she gets for her services but she is also a Satanist and says that loving money is not wrong and that if people are dumb enough to fall for her shit then she should have at it, I would tend to agree on all of the above.
Also I think that all psychics whether they know it or not are fake, I am not denying Intuition which I think we all have on some level and are born with and I am not denying those weird experiences that I have had that seemed Psychic at the time but I think we have an incredible ability to decieve ourselves into thinking we are gifted and thats how spells work, we trick ourseves into believing that the coincidental thing that has just happened was because WE are magical and brought it into our lives!
To each their own though on the first part of this post. Smile
I like con artists myself and liars. Smile


Your friend is a reprehensible con. She is a dishonest bitch, and you are an asshole for agreeing with her.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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