Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
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22-03-2012, 04:58 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
(22-03-2012 02:48 PM)Leela Wrote:  Well I broke contact pretty much with all the esotheric people I knew. I would feel very bad to tell them all the time that what they believe is bs and that there is no proof of all those things.

And about mediation, as I mentioned I did it for a long long time. I still feel like doing it from time to time, I do miss it. Not for the esotheric part but for the relaxing, clearing part. to get my head free and into a real state of relaxation, I do miss it. But I connect too much of it with that whole witchy thing so right now I am not doing that.

I recently heard Sam Harris (famous atheist type guy) on Joe Rogan's Podcast, and he spoke quite a bit about meditation truly doing something to brain chemistry. He said that he had experienced deep meditation that took him to a very blissful state of consciousness that wasn't far off from experiences he had had with psychedelics. His thought is it doesn't have to be thrown out as a religious way of understanding consciouness, it just shouldn't be linked to anything supernatural when you can see it's the neurobiology at work in the brain.

Or something like that...

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22-03-2012, 05:10 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
I understand Erxomai but the same has been said about praying, that you get into a kind of meditative state of mind which is relaxing and generally good for the mind. But would you pray now as you left your religion?

I like meditation, and when I do it it feels good, but for the moment, not happening. I relax differently now, not as well but I do.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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23-03-2012, 01:02 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Quote:RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
(Yesterday 02:54 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:
This is how I've always justified the witch hunts of the 16-18 centuries. the fact that there are people today who fully believe that they are a witch. Imagine what it was like 300 years ago when most people believed witches were powerful and not just a couple of nutters like we do today.

How much do you know about these witch hunts? From what I've heard they were just as senseless as e.g. the ones in Nigeria which go on in the present day. In other words, barbaric bullshit. They used to *burn* people to death.
I'll admit I know very little of the witch hunts (nothing about the Salem ones) but as I have a fairly decent grasp of history I'm pretty sure I can make some educated guesses without missing the mark to much.

One thing I think people have to remember is that times were different. Often the catholic church is viewed by today's standards. Although Burning at the stake was almost always used, being burned alive was normally only used in France. In England it was more common to hang them first and in Scotland it was normal to strangle them at the stake. But neither of these is particularly cruel by standards of the time. In the royal navy and in Australia during the beginning of the 19th century (which hunts in England ended 1735) it was not uncommon for men to receive 500 lashes an almost sure death sentence, which would be much worse then burning. there was the English "Hung, drawn and quartered" where you were hung until you are just about to pass out (doing this multiple times) then they tie you down, and disembowel you and then finally they kill you and cut up your body to hang in different parts of the country. William Wallace was killed in this manner his head placed on a spear on a bridge in London. Then we have the execution where the hang you upside down by your feet. then they take a saw hand saw you in half, starting at the groin and going down. of course I'm being biased. the Chinese also developed the death of a thousand cuts in which they would cut of parts of your body one piece at a time. the Japanese also developed several methods of killing people with maximum pain for maximum time. And also one of my favourites comes from I believe Arabia. where they would take a rat and place it on your stomach. then they would cover the rat with a wooden bucket. On top of the bucket they would light a fire. and since the rat will indistinctly run from the fire and since he can't go through the bucket he will instead go through you. Also Attila the Hun ripped people apart by tying each of there limbs to four horses.

I know a lot about torture.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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23-03-2012, 01:21 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
(23-03-2012 01:02 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  [I know a lot about torture.

And you think it's "not that bad" to kill innocent people, in the context of the times. Crazy man, crazy.
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23-03-2012, 04:15 AM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Luminon:
I am not sure what you mean by new age atheist. I don't know a religion or anything of that kind called "new age". Nothing new. I followed old traditions in an old way believing old things and that since I was a child therefore long before it became trendy. But my mother didn't teach me a lot, apart of the hand thing. Once the seed was planted I was very able to find out the rest by myself.

About being aware. People are only aware of things they are made aware of, especially kids. So yes, I was aware of the fact that my pain goes away when my mom puts her hand on that place and I was made aware of the "magic" in it because she called it her "magic hand". Reiki was not trendy or well known back then either. It was just like that.
By now I know that it helped because the hand is warm and the fact that mom touches you and the warmth of the hand is very relaxing and often that's enough to take pain away. It does not mean that the pain was literally pulled out of someone.

About "New Age teachings", I swear the whole new age talk is getting on my nerves. There is no new age whatever stuff. It is (as I mentioned) old teachings, old believes, old rituals - only thing, now it sounds like science because we have big words for everything.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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23-03-2012, 12:16 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Quote:TarzanSmith Wrote:
[I know a lot about torture.

And you think it's "not that bad" to kill innocent people, in the context of the times. Crazy man, crazy.

I will be the first to admit that I am not a very compassionate man. But I never said I was okay with innocent people getting punished. It's just that there will always be a number of innocent people imprisoned despite being innocent and conversely there will always be a number of people who are not jailed despite being guilty. just look at OJ Simpson and that mother who possibly killed her daughter (i forget her name). Technically they are both innocent but many people would disagree. Does it suck? yes, but this will always happen. And imagine back 300 years ago before CSI. the only method of determining if someone was guilty was through confessions and accusations. also just a fun statistic in regular interrogations today, 80% of people confess to a crime. which seems great until you realize that 40% of innocent people also confess. that's without torture or anything. imagine what those numbers are with torture. Also I believe back then in order to gain a conviction you had to get a confession. so there was going to be a lot of torture especially since they already believe you did it.

Also you have to look at what innocent meant back then. Witches where actually a part of medieval society. Often when there was a problem a family would call in a witch and a priest. unfortunately when things go wrong it's easier to scapegoat the witch then the priest. so these people really were practicing witchcraft. rarely where they just random women (unless someone accused them of being a witch for personal reasons. see Anne of Boleyn). Another thing to remember is that back then the punishment for striking a superior officer was death. Its not so much to think of back then as killing innocents so much as they were just not very good at matching a punishment to a crime. also politics had a big part in a lot of it.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
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23-03-2012, 01:15 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
(23-03-2012 12:16 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  [quote]TarzanSmith Wrote:
Also you have to look at what innocent meant back then. Witches where actually a part of medieval society. Often when there was a problem a family would call in a witch and a priest. unfortunately when things go wrong it's easier to scapegoat the witch then the priest. so these people really were practicing witchcraft.

TS, do you *believe* that witchcraft works, or do you believe that at best, *if* there were true witches being found, then those true witches were just charlatans.

Also please clarify why if witches were part of medieval life it was necessary to have witch finders and witch hunts? Surely everyone would know who the witch was?

I can't be bothered to look it up, but my intuition is telling me that the witch hunts were just brutal mob psychology at its worst.

Do you consider finding and killing a witch to be a crime? What about in the 16th century or whenever these things were happening? Does the Catholic church consider these killings to have been a crime?
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23-03-2012, 02:46 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
Quote:TS, do you *believe* that witchcraft works, or do you believe that at best, *if* there were true witches being found, then those true witches were just charlatans.

Also please clarify why if witches were part of medieval life it was necessary to have witch finders and witch hunts? Surely everyone would know who the witch was?

I can't be bothered to look it up, but my intuition is telling me that the witch hunts were just brutal mob psychology at its worst.

Do you consider finding and killing a witch to be a crime? What about in the 16th century or whenever these things were happening? Does the Catholic church consider these killings to have been a crime?

According to the Catholic Church Witchcraft does in fact exist, So I will say yes I believe that witchcraft does in fact work. BUT(!) witchcraft as a religion is mostly bullshit. (henceforth people who practice witchcraft will be called wiccans) Actual witches are about as common amongst wiccans as saints are amongst Christians. Although the Church has defined magic under a single banner of evil from the devil I have divided it up to include other variables. To me there are three supernatural powers. Miracles, Black Magic and pseudoscience. Miracles obviously come directly from God, Black Magic comes from pacts made with daemons and pseudoscience is just that stuff that cannot be explained by science but is related to either this universe or another. I hope that made some sense. And yes I'm a Christian, I believe in daemons.

But to answer the question I don't believe that the witches executed, or at least the majority, were anything other than charlatans or in some cases herbalists. Also the witch hunts were not constant. the peak was 1580-1630 during the height of the wars of religion but for the most part each region went through witch hunts at different times normally at no more than 20 year periods.

As to whether witchcraft is a crime (not entirely sure what you asking with this question) I would have to say no as it is to an extant no different than any other of the religions which inhabit society. From a religious standpoint it is a crime and I think should be dealt with excommunication from the church. Although I am unsure of the church's standpoint right now (although I am sure it it excommunication) they have apologized for the execution of witches. I disagree with this. since the church had no way of knowing whether these witches had the power to turn someone into a newt, they acted accordingly and no apology should be necessary.

PS I forgot to mention, one reason for the brutality of executions is that they were meant to be public spectacles since this was before TV.

I'm homophobic in the same way that I'm arachnophobic. I'm not scared of gay people but I'm going to scream if I find one in my bath.

I'm. Also homophobic in the same way I'm arachnophobic. I'm scared of spiders but I'd still fuck'em.
- my friend Marc
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23-03-2012, 03:09 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
(23-03-2012 02:46 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  But to answer the question I don't believe that the witches executed, or at least the majority, were anything other than charlatans or in some cases herbalists. Also the witch hunts were not constant. the peak was 1580-1630 during the height of the wars of religion but for the most part each region went through witch hunts at different times normally at no more than 20 year periods.
So, innocent victims.

Quote:As to whether witchcraft is a crime (not entirely sure what you asking with this question) I would have to say no as it is to an extant no different than any other of the religions which inhabit society. From a religious standpoint it is a crime and I think should be dealt with excommunication from the church.
An entirely *religious* punishment. Note the lack of being burned to death.

Quote:Although I am unsure of the church's standpoint right now (although I am sure it it excommunication) they have apologized for the execution of witches. I disagree with this. since the church had no way of knowing whether these witches had the power to turn someone into a newt, they acted accordingly and no apology should be necessary.

PS I forgot to mention, one reason for the brutality of executions is that they were meant to be public spectacles since this was before TV.
And somehow the church did the right thing?

Recap: It's perfectly fine that the Catholic church condoned the murder of innocent people in brutal ways, in fact, you don't think they should have apologized. Huh What am I missing here?
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23-03-2012, 05:55 PM
RE: Leela's spirituality: balance and energy
k i am super tired but I had to check here.
I will post some history of witchcraft and witch hunt tomorrow to clarify some stuff that seems to be very much mistaken or half knowledge.

So yeah... just wanted to say that

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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