Legalize pot
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01-11-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 10:52 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Thanks DL. Got sidetracked. Back now though.

I have a question for you guys..

Do you think the medical marijuana movement is a step towards full legalization, or do you think it is a hindrance?

The legalize pot initiative I mentioned earlier being on the Ballot this election in Washington State is being opposed by the Medical Marijuana establishment. The reality may be a monetary reason, but their stated reason is because the proposed law would also provide stricter enforcement on weed related DUIs. I don't know the figures, but apparently a pot patient carries enough of a particular something in his or her body to be considered under the influence even if its been some hours since they were high. That doesn't seem a big enough reason not to support legalization. If a person is impaired, they should be pulled over and cited. If they're not impaired, they're not going to get pulled over for that.

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01-11-2012, 01:05 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2012 01:12 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 10:52 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Thanks DL. Got sidetracked. Back now though.

I have a question for you guys..

Do you think the medical marijuana movement is a step towards full legalization, or do you think it is a hindrance?

I think it is a step forward as well. As people get more informed about its effects, and it's alleged dangers, I think they will change their minds. Those drug-free and anti-drug television adverts, and Hollywood's depictions of its effects hold a lot less weight with sheep people when they see more people using it more publicly. I think people will ultimately ask "Is this really more dangerous than legal drugs?". Unfortunately I do not believe folks will be open to the idea of legalizing all narcotics for a very, very long time, if ever. Hope I'm wrong on that count.

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01-11-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: Legalize pot
Based on American standards and laws, there is no reason why marijuana should be illegal. Statistically, is far less dangerous than legalized drugs - tobacco and alcohol.

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01-11-2012, 01:35 PM (This post was last modified: 01-11-2012 01:43 PM by Phaedrus.)
RE: Legalize pot
For the record, I wasn't actually high when I made this thread. I was just pretending to be for the humor.

(01-11-2012 12:52 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  You are wrong. The war on drugs is not about skin color. maybe it used to be, I can't be sure. I just know that the war on drugs gives the government billions of untracked dollars to spend. I know the FBI and CIA get a lot of funds from it. Who knows how many high ranking officials in our government also line their pockets with it as well.


Of course I don't think it's about race, I just think that the cost in human life of the drug prohibition is ignored by most people, and I think part of the reason it is ignored is because most of the people being affected aren't white and don't speak English. This means that, to most Americans, these people don't exist and are harder to feel sympathy for. Because having known thousands of Americans, Americans are kind of assholes to non-white people who don't speak English. It's a trend.




And you know what? I've only smoked pot once. No instant addiction. No evil side effects. Just a nice buzz, and the next morning all I felt about it was, "Well that was quite nice. I'd like to do that again some time." Much like the first time I got slightly tipsy (but not drunk) on alcohol. Only reason I haven't is it's inconvenient and expensive to buy. So congratulations, you've managed to stop me enjoying a pleasurable activity that wasn't hurting me or anyone else. Well done.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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01-11-2012, 01:38 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 01:05 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(01-11-2012 10:52 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Thanks DL. Got sidetracked. Back now though.

I have a question for you guys..

Do you think the medical marijuana movement is a step towards full legalization, or do you think it is a hindrance?

I think it is a step forward as well. As people get more informed about its effects, and it's alleged dangers, I think they will change their minds. Those drug-free and anti-drug television adverts, and Hollywood's depictions of its effects hold a lot less weight with sheep people when they see more people using it more publicly. I think people will ultimately ask "Is this really more dangerous than legal drugs?". Unfortunately I do not believe folks will be open to the idea of legalizing all narcotics for a very, very long time, if ever. Hope I'm wrong on that count.

If the fucking Republicans were intellectually honest or consistent, they would legalize drugs. It's a matter of personal freedom and free market economics.

But they aren't, and they won't.

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01-11-2012, 02:29 PM (This post was last modified: 02-11-2012 09:31 PM by TrulyX.)
RE: Legalize pot
(31-10-2012 09:50 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Okay, well you obviously don't understand natural rights and want a nanny state. Government has no authority to punish people for harming themselves. It is a ridiculous concept. If they government declares that they have a right to assert what I can and can not due with my body they they are asserting that they own my body. I am an adult with full mental capacity, it is my responsibility to evaluate what I put into my body. If I deem it appropriate to smoke crack, or parachute off of a cliff face on my property that is my prerogative. I know it is dangerous, but it is my choice, not the governments. What you describe is government run amok. It is the same for alcohol, if I choose to get piss drunk I suffer the consequences. If, while drunk, I hop in my car, and run over someone I am still responsible for actions. I will still get punished for harming others. This is the way it should be.

These are empty assertions. What is your reasoning, because you have provided none, only claims.


Which just shows that people know they suffer the consequences of their actions, and provided alternatives, most will choose a less destructive drug. Prohibition does not stop people from doing crack, meth, or heroine. The people that choose to do those drugs are doing them, regardless of the law. All it is doing is tying up tax dollars punishing people for harming themselves. Non-violent drug 'offenders' do not belong in prison. At best it wastes resources and increases taxes. At worst it turns them into violent criminals. It is counter-productive. Offering treatment is a much better option.

Well I would know it, but maybe you just aren't observant. Either way, I did look at the data. The fact that you acknowledge this leaves you no room to argue this point. I don't even know why you posted this bit. You agree with me, but then try to make it look weaker by saying that you don't understand why the data is in opposition to what you want to be true.

This is Economics 101. Do I really need to explain why making something illegal creates an artificial inflation of its value? Really? You bother looking at what happened with alcohol when it was prohibited? No? Urggh, okay...Well it's like this. Since the substance is illegal there is inherent risk in manufacturing (or growing) it. Since there is an inherent risk fewer people are willing to do it. Additionally it is risky to sell it, ship it, knowingly supporting it by selling things to help manufacture it, etc. This makes the price increase though the product is the same as it was before it was made illegal.

Okay, well, hi, I am Dark Light. I do drugs. My drug of choice is alcohol. I do not wish to quit doing this drug. Pleased to meet you. Believe it or not, just because you don't know other drug users that don't want to stop doing drugs does not mean they are not there. I can assure you, there are plenty of drug users that have no desire to quit doing drugs, because drugs are fun. I'm am sure there are plenty of others, even on this very forum that do not desire to quit using their drug of choice. I suspect no less that two in this very thread would like nothing more than to continue using their drug of choice, even though it is illegal.

You cannot prevent drugs from flooding the street with prohibition. It does not limit there availability, only their price. If I wanted to I could leave my house and have any number of drugs within a 15 minute time span. I could even have it delivered within 30. Without a magic genie or a god to wish drugs of the face of the earth it cannot be done. Even then, we would find new ways of getting high. Sorry to burst your bubble friend.

I can predict the future, because history repeats itself. People that want to smoke weed will smoke weed. People that want to smoke crack, will smoke crack. People that want to do both, will. There is nothing in marijuana that makes you want get higher or do other drugs. It is that simple. If the data is not enough to convince you, then I don't know what will. You reasoned for your argument, but data trumps reason, it has a way of showing that your reasoning was false. This is what religious people do to convince themselves that their religion is right.

EDIT:

God doesn't exist, you have no natural rights, get over it. It would only be a "natural right" in the sense that you can do it naturally, which you still can, regardless of law. With that same stance, people have the "natural right" to do whatever it is they want and can do. Morality is a different story, which doesn't give you much of an argument in terms of being for drugs, but morality isn't inherent, natural, or given by some kind of god, that gives you any "natural rights", regardless. Also, stop referring to "government" that way. The government isn't a physical thing. People govern. Government isn't some giant living in the mountains coming down to mess with the village people. You make it sound like Zeus with a minority report.

Certain drugs can be used responsibly and actually can have benefits, when used certain ways, but ignoring the problems with drug abuse, moral and societal, is just plain dumb. You don't need a socialized system in order for people to have an effect on their own health and impact on cost for other people. Emergency room costs, insurance costs, surgeries, diseases, illnesses. You are going to impact, in one way or the other, eventually, other people's healthcare costs, even without a socialized system. You've already acknowledged that you can take certain actions while under drugs. You are impairing your judgement, and you have the ability of putting other people immediately at risk. People didn't pull DUI and public intoxication laws out of their asses. If you are on drugs, if you do drugs in general, the people around you are, in on way or the other, likely, at some point, to be hurt or affected. That's all common sense. I think I described enough in response to the previous quote, but it should definitely not be something that someone should have to explain to an adult.

I already expressed that I think that you have a legitimate gripe about prison sentences for drugs. I even agree to treatment, prevention, etc. From my experience, with certain drugs, people genuinely would have preferred to be drug free. That is what I was referring to, mainly. Personally, the vast majority of people I know, wish they didn't do tobacco or alcohol either, but I guess I could have been more specific in what I was referring to.

I'm wouldn't even arguing as much that exposure, if legal, would go up resulting in more problems, as much as am pointing out that exposure does affect the opportunity and usage, and that certain drugs, even if just for principle alone, should not be legal. There is just not a good argument for legalizing them. Given how little I care about other people, I really wouldn't care if they did drugs. I'd just rather they didn't in any society that I'd want to call myself part of, and also in such a society, I'd like laws that reflected intelligence and rationality. It doesn't have anything to do with prohibition. I could stop drug use with policy, and that's illegal, legal or otherwise. It's principle.

I was implying that what Stark Raving was trying to explain--legalizing pot wouldn't have an impact on other drug use--was probably the reasonable thing to assume. Maybe, I should add this now: I am actually in favor of legalizing marijuana, eventually. With some other drugs, in certain forms, it's almost to the point of saying let's legalize assault. People aren't just going to randomly go around assaulting each other just because it's legal, and people have the natural right to assault others.

"I can predict the future, because history repeats itself."

Good, we can end the discussion here. Since you already know what will happens in the future, now the only thing left to decide is how much to charge for the use of your super-human powers.

EDIT/

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01-11-2012, 02:58 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2012 01:05 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I think it is a step forward as well. As people get more informed about its effects, and it's alleged dangers, I think they will change their minds. Those drug-free and anti-drug television adverts, and Hollywood's depictions of its effects hold a lot less weight with sheep people when they see more people using it more publicly. I think people will ultimately ask "Is this really more dangerous than legal drugs?". Unfortunately I do not believe folks will be open to the idea of legalizing all narcotics for a very, very long time, if ever. Hope I'm wrong on that count.

If the fucking Republicans were intellectually honest or consistent, they would legalize drugs. It's a matter of personal freedom and free market economics.

But they aren't, and they won't.

It's always weird when we agree.

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01-11-2012, 03:01 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 02:58 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(01-11-2012 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  If the fucking Republicans were intellectually honest or consistent, they would legalize drugs. It's a matter of personal freedom and free market economics.

But they aren't, and they won't.

It's always weird when we agree.

Yeah, just stop that.Shocking

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01-11-2012, 05:56 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 01:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(01-11-2012 01:05 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  I think it is a step forward as well. As people get more informed about its effects, and it's alleged dangers, I think they will change their minds. Those drug-free and anti-drug television adverts, and Hollywood's depictions of its effects hold a lot less weight with sheep people when they see more people using it more publicly. I think people will ultimately ask "Is this really more dangerous than legal drugs?". Unfortunately I do not believe folks will be open to the idea of legalizing all narcotics for a very, very long time, if ever. Hope I'm wrong on that count.

If the fucking Republicans were intellectually honest or consistent, they would legalize drugs. It's a matter of personal freedom and free market economics.

But they aren't, and they won't.

I couldn't agree more. There are Republicans who do advocate for this, but they are far, and few between. The party, as a whole, is exactly as you described them. This is why there exists the Libertarian Part, The Constitution Party, etc. That being said all of these other right-wing parties, aside from the LP have a Christian Bias, which is why I always vote Libertarian when given the option. If I have no option (for example in voting for a local office) I will usually, reluctantly vote Republican, though I have voted for a Democrat before when my options were really shitty Ohmy


Truly X, don't take my silence as a submission to your half-baked thoughts. I'm just too damn lazy to make another long-winded response.

Stark, feel free to take this one, I'm done trying to explain freedom, and the failures of prohibition to this guy.

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01-11-2012, 07:24 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(30-10-2012 04:30 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Just a thought (not my opinion).

Legalizing weed could have its downsides. I mean if its legal then it could remove reasons for cops to search suspicious peoples cars/persons etc.. which in turn could lead to higher crime.

So you are saying that Legalizing pot would diminish the already lacking argument for illegal search and seizures...

haha, that might be the dumbest thing ever written.
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