Legalize pot
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01-11-2012, 08:07 PM
RE: Legalize pot
The only way to respond to a wall of post like that is to quote the whole fucking thing and address it bit by bit. That forces anyone interested in reading the topic to re-read Trulys already too long post, for a second time.

Honestly, writing a post like that is useless. Instead, let's actually talk about something specific, and stop writing novels that no one will even read. It's just so masturbatory, since the only one your writing for is yourself. Better to do that kind of thing by yourself.

Let's start with your top reason why you think drugs, of any kind, should be prohibited.

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02-11-2012, 10:21 AM
RE: Legalize pot
(01-11-2012 08:07 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Let's start with your top reason why you think drugs, of any kind, should be prohibited.

It's basically practicality, rationality and morality. It's about law, and how public policy should be set up. It's just that simple. It's might be kind difficult to explain, because it would be sort of detailed. I don't think it's really anything to explain, however.

By the way, sorry for writing that much. I just responded to it by quotes, in paragraphs and explained things I shouldn't have. I didn't realize it was going to be that long until after I posted it.

(01-11-2012 05:56 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Truly X, don't take my silence as a submission to your half-baked thoughts. I'm just too damn lazy to make another long-winded response.

They aren't "half-baked thoughts"; your full of shit if you could convince yourself of that. Also, you don't need to respond with a "long-winded response", you can respond with something short, like Stark Raving described. I'll probably end up breaking it down, with an edit, anyway, so it doesn't take up that much space.

Anyway, I highly doubt that I am actually that far away with from you, on the issue of drugs. I am just vehemently opposed to you ideological views, way of thinking and what I will assumed to be your worldview, which you have probably gotten the point about already. The rest of the post was me responding to a lot of stuff I probably should not have responded to. It was just me feeling the need to explain things that I should have been more apathetic about, and like I said, I'll probably cut it down.

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02-11-2012, 11:34 AM
RE: Legalize pot
So it should be against the law, because it is against the law? I don't get it.
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02-11-2012, 11:42 AM
RE: Legalize pot
I don't know about other states, but it is not illegal to grow pot in Kansas. It is illegal to harvest it. This way, if you have pot growing in your property, they can not arrest you, they can not seize your property, they can not even fine you. The only way they can do any of the aforementioned is if there is also evidence of processing. The issue being; they would need to search for this evidence and a warrant for said search (unless you are a moron and let them) would be necessary. The issue, intent to sell would carry it's own separate legalities, and further evidence would be necessary specifically for that. Oh come on, man... it is possible to grow six tons for one's own use. Dodgy

This kind of intricate legislation came about in Kansas because we are primarily farmers and who knows what the hell is growing out there in the back forty (or basement closet). So, if a cop comes around and sees a couple of pot plants or a field growing and says, "Hey, I'd like to take a look in that big barn over there.". One's common sense better kick in at this point and a polite "no" should be enough. Shy

Here, all any authority is legally able to immediately do, is remove the offending pot that is present. They usually end up burning it on the spot. Ironic, huh? Sad, but I'd still wanna be around that bonfire. Wink

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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02-11-2012, 12:54 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(02-11-2012 10:21 AM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(01-11-2012 08:07 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Let's start with your top reason why you think drugs, of any kind, should be prohibited.

It's basically practicality, rationality and morality. It's about law, and how public policy should be set up. It's just that simple. It's might be kind difficult to explain, because it would be sort of detailed. I don't think it's really anything to explain, however.

By the way, sorry for writing that much. I just responded to it by quotes, in paragraphs and explained things I shouldn't have. I didn't realize it was going to be that long until after I posted it.

(01-11-2012 05:56 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Truly X, don't take my silence as a submission to your half-baked thoughts. I'm just too damn lazy to make another long-winded response.

They aren't "half-baked thoughts"; your full of shit if you could convince yourself of that. Also, you don't need to respond with a "long-winded response", you can respond with something short, like Stark Raving described. I'll probably end up breaking it down, with an edit, anyway, so it doesn't take up that much space.

Anyway, I highly doubt that I am actually that far away with from you, on the issue of drugs. I am just vehemently opposed to you ideological views, way of thinking and what I will assumed to be your worldview, which you have probably gotten the point about already. The rest of the post was me responding to a lot of stuff I probably should not have responded to. It was just me feeling the need to explain things that I should have been more apathetic about, and like I said, I'll probably cut it down.
I warned before I posted that most people on here would probably not agree with my opinion from a rights perspective, didn't even want to start it because I knew this is what would happen, but I did so reluctantly. You either think that governments should be allowed to regulate your personal behaviour when it harms no one else, or you don't, but for me it is immoral.

Even if you disagree with my thoughts on that all of my other points are valid, most of them are factual and the data reflects so. If you want to continue doing so one point at a time like Stark suggested by all means, make your case, one facet at a time when possible.

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02-11-2012, 01:22 PM
RE: Legalize pot
All drugs should be legalised in my opinion and here is how I would go about it.

When you reach a certain age (up for discussion... I think 18 should suffice) then you yourself pay a one off small fee to visit either a doctor or a qualified health worker to discuss drug options. At this meeting you will discuss the drugs you are thinking of taking and these are discussed... impartially... with you. Your medical records should be checked against and any possible health risks should be brought up and be made aware to you. At the end of the meeting you will be fully informed of safe use, things to do and not to do and then issued with a card/license that allows you to at first only buy some of what are considered "softer drugs"

(Weed, amphetamine, MDMA etc etc)

To buy you need to go to a fully licensed and regulated pharmacy (either currently existing or newly built ones from businesses wanting to profit) Any drug purchases you make will go onto your medical records via your license.

After holding your license "cleanly" for a certain amount of time (a year???) you may then visit your doctor/health worker and be allowed to have your license/card upgraded to the more "harder" drugs if you wish, again going through the same process of informative discussion you had when you got your license.

All of the money raised (hundreds of millions) in taxes through the sale of drugs goes back into keeping the system operating and improving and also in the rehabilitation of drug users.

I would use the framework that is currently in place for alcohol to police it. There would need to be methods to test people in certain situations (driving, operating heavy machinery etc) to wether they are "under the influence". You would be allowed to produce it yourself but it would be illegal to sell it unless you met certain regulated licensed safety criteria and paid taxes on it.

Would people still keep making there own and selling it??? I think for a while yes they would.... but I think over time this would dwindle (much like alcohol today) and for convenience, price and quality guarantee I think people would go to the pre-ordained places instead of shadily meeting people and participating in breaking the law.

There is a lot of money in the drugs trade, I know a lot of people who profit quite generously off what they do. Removing this source of income will of course be a problem for them. They would need to seek alternative methods of making money and im sure that a rise in other areas of crime will happen, but over time and through adjustment of different generations I think this crime rate will peak and either stay constant.... or fluctuate up and down pretty much like it does today.

Wont happen.... but we can all dream Cool

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02-11-2012, 02:07 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(02-11-2012 01:22 PM)bemore Wrote:  All drugs should be legalised in my opinion and here is how I would go about it.

When you reach a certain age (up for discussion... I think 18 should suffice) then you yourself pay a one off small fee to visit either a doctor or a qualified health worker to discuss drug options. At this meeting you will discuss the drugs you are thinking of taking and these are discussed... impartially... with you. Your medical records should be checked against and any possible health risks should be brought up and be made aware to you. At the end of the meeting you will be fully informed of safe use, things to do and not to do and then issued with a card/license that allows you to at first only buy some of what are considered "softer drugs"

(Weed, amphetamine, MDMA etc etc)

To buy you need to go to a fully licensed and regulated pharmacy (either currently existing or newly built ones from businesses wanting to profit) Any drug purchases you make will go onto your medical records via your license.

After holding your license "cleanly" for a certain amount of time (a year???) you may then visit your doctor/health worker and be allowed to have your license/card upgraded to the more "harder" drugs if you wish, again going through the same process of informative discussion you had when you got your license.

All of the money raised (hundreds of millions) in taxes through the sale of drugs goes back into keeping the system operating and improving and also in the rehabilitation of drug users.

I would use the framework that is currently in place for alcohol to police it. There would need to be methods to test people in certain situations (driving, operating heavy machinery etc) to wether they are "under the influence". You would be allowed to produce it yourself but it would be illegal to sell it unless you met certain regulated licensed safety criteria and paid taxes on it.

Would people still keep making there own and selling it??? I think for a while yes they would.... but I think over time this would dwindle (much like alcohol today) and for convenience, price and quality guarantee I think people would go to the pre-ordained places instead of shadily meeting people and participating in breaking the law.

There is a lot of money in the drugs trade, I know a lot of people who profit quite generously off what they do. Removing this source of income will of course be a problem for them. They would need to seek alternative methods of making money and im sure that a rise in other areas of crime will happen, but over time and through adjustment of different generations I think this crime rate will peak and either stay constant.... or fluctuate up and down pretty much like it does today.

Wont happen.... but we can all dream Cool
Thats a lot of work... I don't recall these things being in place for the already legal drugs.
Also how are you going to be able to keep up the influx of new drugs?
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02-11-2012, 02:09 PM
RE: Legalize pot
A clarification : pot does cause cancer more so than cigarettes and is not used to treat it. It IS very useful to treat the nausea and anorexia that often accompanies cancer. Great for palliative care. Btw I have stopped prescribing OXY except for palliative care as it is the narcotic with the least side effects.
None of this is any reason to ban pot.
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02-11-2012, 02:14 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(02-11-2012 02:09 PM)sandman Wrote:  A clarification : pot does cause cancer more so than cigarettes and is not used to treat it. It IS very useful to treat the nausea and anorexia that often accompanies cancer. Great for palliative care. Btw I have stopped prescribing OXY except for palliative care as it is the narcotic with the least side effects.
None of this is any reason to ban pot.
Should narcotics stay prescription only? If so, why?

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02-11-2012, 02:24 PM
RE: Legalize pot
It seems that drugs are illegal for moral or political reasons. They are either sinful or a threat to society.

However, most of the harm to society seems to be because they are illegal. Their illegality creates otherwise non-existent criminal behavior, with its harmful side effects for even those not involved.

If all drugs were legal, then the ill effects would be the same as for alcohol, i.e. health problems for users, addiction, impaired driving, other impaired behaviors. We already have mechanisms for dealing with these effects.

If we legalized drugs, most of the prison over-crowding would cease to exist, police assets could be redistributed, costs lowered.

The FDA would ensure purity, truth in labeling, etc.

I don't like having the nanny-state trying to coddle me. And if you think that I am sinful for using drugs, too fucking bad, it's none of your business.

And if you object because it would burden the health care system, shut up until we have socialized medicine - only then will that argument have any possible validity.

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