Legalize pot
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05-11-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: Legalize pot
Truly X Wrote:I do agree with it being kind of weird focusing on medical purposes,
when you should be focusing on getting the drug decriminalized, prior to
anything else. The penalties, jail time and fines, are a lot more
absurd and problematic than not being able use it as a prescription,
especially when a lot of the time it does give you the feeling that it
is a lot more of a placebo effect, and they like getting high, as
opposed to being really serious.

Usually people that argue for decriminalization would like to make the act of using marijuana illegal, that is to regulate the act of using marijuana, but without a criminal offense. This would still leave the rest of the marijuana industry flat out illegal. If you meant something else by decriminalization, clarify.

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05-11-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Legalize pot
Surprisingly, my thoughts on medical Mary Jane are very mixed. I see it help people first hand. I think prescribing it for people in need is a great thing. But at the same time, I think it should be completely legal. That includes for recreational use. What happens though, is that as we get more deeply entrenched in the "Medical Marijuana Movement" the more it diminishes the possibility of full legalization. Pushing the idea that pot is a medicine that should be doled out by doctors also imbeds the idea that it should be available by prescription only. I understand that's not literally the case (my doc prescribes exercise, diet changes, etc all the time, and those are not scrip only) but it is an impression many people can't seem to shake.

My real stance on this is that weed should be legal. Period.
Absolutely restrict it to adults. Regulate and tax it like alcohol. But legalize. Not just for medical use, but for everyone.

I'll stop here for fear of rambling on too long.

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05-11-2012, 03:17 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(05-11-2012 11:38 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Usually people that argue for decriminalization would like to make the act of using marijuana illegal, that is to regulate the act of using marijuana, but without a criminal offense. This would still leave the rest of the marijuana industry flat out illegal. If you meant something else by decriminalization, clarify.

Okay. In that post I was referring to focusing on the current criminal penalties, and lifting the criminal penalties, and that would be in a number of areas, not just use, specifically as opposed to focusing on medical purposes.

I probably should have also added that it should be toward the end of getting it legalized, but I guess I wasn't paying attention to how people distinguish between 'legalization' and 'decriminalization'.

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05-11-2012, 03:30 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(05-11-2012 03:17 PM)TrulyX Wrote:  
(05-11-2012 11:38 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  Usually people that argue for decriminalization would like to make the act of using marijuana illegal, that is to regulate the act of using marijuana, but without a criminal offense. This would still leave the rest of the marijuana industry flat out illegal. If you meant something else by decriminalization, clarify.

Okay. In that post I was referring to focusing on the current criminal penalties, and lifting the criminal penalties, and that would be in a number of areas, not just use, specifically as opposed to focusing on medical purposes.

I probably should have also added that it should be toward the end of getting it legalized, but I guess I wasn't paying attention to how people distinguish between 'legalization' and 'decriminalization'.
Hey Truly, I think this raises a really valid point.

So many pot supporters want things to just happen. Legalize. Period.
Fuck. I'd love that too, but it just isn't reasonable. If legalization is to happen, I think it will have to be a more gradual process. A good start would be to start easing up on cannabis related penalties. Nobody wants to pay for some dude who got caught puffing a joint to go to jail. It causes overcrowding, and costs us all money. Relaxing laws can be a step towards abolishing them, and by doing so gradually we get to demonstrate to those opposed that it isn't so bad. Also, we get to demonstrate to the pro pot crowd that it isn't as simple as saying, "ok, it's legal now. Smoke em if you got em!"

Remember, opposition keeps the conversation sane.

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05-11-2012, 03:40 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(02-11-2012 03:23 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(02-11-2012 02:09 PM)sandman Wrote:  A clarification : pot does cause cancer more so than cigarettes and is not used to treat it. It IS very useful to treat the nausea and anorexia that often accompanies cancer. Great for palliative care. Btw I have stopped prescribing OXY except for palliative care as it is the narcotic with the least side effects.
None of this is any reason to ban pot.
sandman, not that my argument hinges on it, because it certainly doesn't, but I am curious as to what data has shown marijuana alone to cause cancer? A link would be nice. The studies I have read is that smoking marijuana (opposed to vaporizers, and edibles) alone has not caused cancer but it may, when combined with tobacco smoke, make cancer more likely. Vaporizers and edibles have no known link to cancer as far as I can tell. I do know some government funded studies said that marijuana smoke may cause cancer, but without confirming a case.

Largest study of it's kind at the University of California
It appears I was overly dogmatic about the carcinogenicity of MJ. I was aware that the tar content is high and in the review cited below there is indirect evidence but precious little outcome studies to prove that lung cancer results from MJ. It seems MJ is hard to study as the illegality makes recruiting study participants or collecting retrospective data very difficult. I don't know when we will have the same evidence that we have for tobacco - maybe never. The indirect evidence is concerning but not definitive. Sorry I don't know how to make a link those near me who do are believers and unlikely to want to help me. I googled "marijuana and cancer" to find this review.

Alcohol 35 (2005) 265–275

Epidemiologic review of marijuana use and cancer risk

Mia Hashibea, Kurt Straifa, Donald P. Tashkinb, Hal Morgensternc, Sander Greenlandd,e, Zuo-Feng Zhangd,*
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05-11-2012, 05:06 PM
RE: Legalize pot
Sandman,

You hit the nail on the head brother. Here's why:

Research on marijuana is actually fairly thorough considering it's listed as an illegal narcotic. But access to marijuana is very restricted for research purposes. That basically means the government decides who studies it, and what they are looking for. In the end, it makes almost all of the information out there skewed, depending on who's providing the info.

A good example of that is when people say, "marijuana is proven to kill cancer!" That is a very misleading statement, because it is true. The thing is, the cannabinoids in MJ have only been shown to kill a certain type of cancer cell, and only in a petri dish! So those who think it's going to make their cancer disappear are sorely mistaken.

Another good example is this little ditty: "Weed kills brain cells" That was determined in an extremely flawed experiment that took place in the sixties. Turns out, completely depriving the brain of oxygen is what killed the brain cells in the study (um.....duh?) but when that information came out, it didn't make nearly as many headlines.

The important thing is that we look at the information available, and interpret findings correctly. Most mainstream info (I'm talking about "common" understanding) is so badly biased, it's irrelevant. It consists of so many incorrect conclusions that really we need to throw all those conclusions away, and re-visit the basic information.

Do that, and I am VERY confident that any reasonable person will see that marijuana prohibition is a real crappy idea.

Then again, who's to say I'm a reasonable person? Wink

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05-11-2012, 06:05 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(05-11-2012 05:06 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  fairly thorough

one step better than poorly. but not goodly.

Illegalities have failed our commercialization of this commodity. They're cutting into profit. This cannot do!

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05-11-2012, 07:54 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(05-11-2012 03:40 PM)sandman Wrote:  
(02-11-2012 03:23 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  sandman, not that my argument hinges on it, because it certainly doesn't, but I am curious as to what data has shown marijuana alone to cause cancer? A link would be nice. The studies I have read is that smoking marijuana (opposed to vaporizers, and edibles) alone has not caused cancer but it may, when combined with tobacco smoke, make cancer more likely. Vaporizers and edibles have no known link to cancer as far as I can tell. I do know some government funded studies said that marijuana smoke may cause cancer, but without confirming a case.

Largest study of it's kind at the University of California
It appears I was overly dogmatic about the carcinogenicity of MJ. I was aware that the tar content is high and in the review cited below there is indirect evidence but precious little outcome studies to prove that lung cancer results from MJ. It seems MJ is hard to study as the illegality makes recruiting study participants or collecting retrospective data very difficult. I don't know when we will have the same evidence that we have for tobacco - maybe never. The indirect evidence is concerning but not definitive. Sorry I don't know how to make a link those near me who do are believers and unlikely to want to help me. I googled "marijuana and cancer" to find this review.

Alcohol 35 (2005) 265–275

Epidemiologic review of marijuana use and cancer risk

Mia Hashibea, Kurt Straifa, Donald P. Tashkinb, Hal Morgensternc, Sander Greenlandd,e, Zuo-Feng Zhangd,*
It is the mark of a good man to admit when they spoke (so to speak..errr, type) without enough information to do so, so good on you. That being said, yes more research should be done, however humans have been consuming marijuana for all of recorded history. If there was a strong link between the two, it would have shown up pretty definitively by now. If there was a known example of a marijuana only smoker getting cancer of the lungs from marijuana, the government would be advertising that shit on every American TV screen for their next anti-drug campaign. I'm not ruling it out entirely, but if marijuana can cause cancer, then the odds of getting it must be pretty low. Even then there are other ways to intake marijuana, which I am even more confident would not cause cancer. That is my opinion anyhow...

Stark Raving Wrote:That is a very misleading statement, because it is true.
I had to read this three times before I got what you were saying. Who the fuck words it like that? Laugh out load

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05-11-2012, 08:02 PM
RE: Legalize pot
(05-11-2012 07:54 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(05-11-2012 03:40 PM)sandman Wrote:  It appears I was overly dogmatic about the carcinogenicity of MJ. I was aware that the tar content is high and in the review cited below there is indirect evidence but precious little outcome studies to prove that lung cancer results from MJ. It seems MJ is hard to study as the illegality makes recruiting study participants or collecting retrospective data very difficult. I don't know when we will have the same evidence that we have for tobacco - maybe never. The indirect evidence is concerning but not definitive. Sorry I don't know how to make a link those near me who do are believers and unlikely to want to help me. I googled "marijuana and cancer" to find this review.

Alcohol 35 (2005) 265–275

Epidemiologic review of marijuana use and cancer risk

Mia Hashibea, Kurt Straifa, Donald P. Tashkinb, Hal Morgensternc, Sander Greenlandd,e, Zuo-Feng Zhangd,*
It is the mark of a good man to admit when they spoke (so to speak..errr, type) without enough information to do so, so good on you. That being said, yes more research should be done, however humans have been consuming marijuana for all of recorded history. If there was a strong link between the two, it would have shown up pretty definitively by now. If there was a known example of a marijuana only smoker getting cancer of the lungs from marijuana, the government would be advertising that shit on every American TV screen for their next anti-drug campaign. I'm not ruling it out entirely, but if marijuana can cause cancer, then the odds of getting it must be pretty low. Even then there are other ways to intake marijuana, which I am even more confident would not cause cancer. That is my opinion anyhow...

Stark Raving Wrote:That is a very misleading statement, because it is true.
I had to read this three times before I got what you were saying. Who the fuck words it like that? Laugh out load
Sorry. One of my dads favorites when I was a kid was, "the most misleading statements are usually true."

The phrase was meant to point out that just because you know a piece of "truth", doesn't mean you understand the bigger picture. I was a jump to conclusions type of kid, so he tossed that one at me on a seemingly daily basis. Guess I twisted it beyond comprehensible.

Either that or I'm really stoned.

Or you are.

Or we both are.






Ooo look! Something shiny.......

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