Poll: Should Prostitution be legalized
Yes, free from government and tax
Yes, with reasonable constraints and regulations
No, because it's immoral/dehumanizes people/causes psycological trauma
No, it's against my religion
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Legalizing Prostitution
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01-12-2013, 06:40 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I'm sensing a little sexual tension between frank and chas, maybe you two should kiss and make up? If it helps you guys can pay eachother Big Grin
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01-12-2013, 06:45 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 06:34 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 06:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  Just fuck off. You do this over and over. You are a dishonest arsehole.

Look, Chas. I explained in my first post ages ago what I meant by violence. The only reason I keep saying the same thing over and over, is because it STILL hasn't sunk in. After all this explanation, you STILL insist that I've said regulation in and of itself is violence. When have I said that? Copy and paste? Of course, you can't because you're making it up.

So if you want me to stop correcting you over and over and over, then stop playing games and pretending like the concept of violence is just too complex for you to get your head around.

(01-12-2013 06:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are arguing for a complete cessation of those means. Not possible. If you would like to have a reasonable discussion about appropriate law enforcement, great.

Hardly. I've agreed with you about hauling off at gunpoint the perpetrators who force women into prostitution, the John's who rape them or hit them, the human traffickers who prevent their escape. I am 100% in favor of law enforcement.

The ONLY time I disagree with you is when you propose something non-reciprocal, where you want to use violence against someone who himself is not violent, but is just doing something you don't like. I know this is impossible for you to believe, but THERE ARE non-violent alternatives. I've advocated setting up help centers to provide these women with counseling, rehab, food, medical care, housing, job training and placement, and any other support they need. The _ONLY_ thing I'm against is you hauling off at gunpoint a non-violent person just because he does something you don't like.

Now, if you want to stop the vicious cycle that's repeated 100x of me re-explaining this, then stop pretending like you can't understand it. It is NOT complicated.

You keep repeating the violence mantra over and over without ever being specific.
And you keep attributing views to me (and others) that I (we) have not propounded.

Lower the volume of your rhetoric and maybe an actual discussion will ensue.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-12-2013, 06:47 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 06:37 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 06:06 PM)cjlr Wrote:  It rather implicitly is.

An unenforced regulation is just a suggestion...

Like Chas you find this impossible to believe, but there actually are non-violent ways to enforce rules. Believe it or not, a gun is not a necessary component to solve a problem.

For example, it was suggested Sweden uses shame and humiliation to enforce the regulation. Fine. That's not violent. They may use fines with liens on your property. Fine. That's not violent. Even better yet, provide an incentive for people to do the right thing, and setup a system where it's a win-win for everyone. Why is it so impossible to accept that a gun isn't required?

So it's guns and incarceration you don't like. However, liens against property can result in the taking of that property. Many consider that violence - I certainly do.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-12-2013, 06:51 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 06:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  You keep repeating the violence mantra over and over without ever being specific.

Then you're not listening. I've been very specific. Violence includes the threat to use:

1. tasers
2. guns
3. batons
4. fists
5. handcuffs
6. prison cells

That's not specific enough for you?

(01-12-2013 06:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  And you keep attributing views to me (and others) that I (we) have not propounded.

Ok, fine. Then if someone who himself is not using violence refuses to do or stop doing something you want do you advocate any of those 6 enforcement tools above?
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01-12-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
Sorry Sporehux but I think you are pretty much missing the entire point.

Most of the arguments against prostitution appear, to me, to be based around the results of illegal prostitution. The things you are describing would most likely not occur in a legal set up and so using them to try and justify criminalizing it is counter-productive.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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01-12-2013, 07:01 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 06:14 PM)Chas Wrote:  If you would like to have a reasonable discussion...

Chas, Cjlr, we can avoid going round and round if, in the future, when you dispute something I've said, just start your rebuttal with "I believe violence should be used BECAUSE..."

Then we'd have a productive debate about whether there's a non-violent solution. The reason we're stuck at square 1 and keep going round and round and getting nowhere is you seem uncomfortable accepting what your own position is, and that the use of violence is the only thing we disagree on. If you could get past that and just recognize the core issue we disagree on, then I wouldn't need to keep bringing up the definition of violence over and over. We could get past the semantics and discuss the real issue.
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01-12-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I think it should be legalized and be regulated.
But,i also think that people would go to the underground prostitutes,because the customers do not want to be seen as some1 who visits prostitutes or the prostitutes would not want to be known as such because of the social stigma.
Also,if the gov legalized it,the legal alternatives would have to pay atleast minimum loan(a good thing!) but then they wouldnt be able to compete with the illegal alternatives that can go cheaper because they force girls to be prostitutes.
If the legalisation could come and prevent problems like these,then i would even more advocate for legalisation of prostitution

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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01-12-2013, 07:09 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 11:20 AM)sporehux Wrote:  ...
When people gulp down some Jack Daniel's or smoke a cig, the bottle or cigarette packet does not cry itself to sleep wondering if suicide would be such a bad thing.
"In one study, 75% of women in escort prostitution had attempted suicide."
http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prostitut...facts.html

Like child spanking, just because its always been around does not make it acceptable.
I could list a thousand psych studies into the harm of prostitution, the onus is on the supporters to show why it should be allowed at all, let alone legalised...

OK. If I must.

Are the suicide attempts related to the job or the stigma attached to the job.

You have laid out one extremist view.
I'll give you the opposite extreme position...

All sex must be chargeable.

There ya go... No stigma.

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01-12-2013, 07:10 PM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 06:51 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 06:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  You keep repeating the violence mantra over and over without ever being specific.

Then you're not listening. I've been very specific. Violence includes the threat to use:

1. tasers
2. guns
3. batons
4. fists
5. handcuffs
6. prison cells

That's not specific enough for you?

(01-12-2013 06:45 PM)Chas Wrote:  And you keep attributing views to me (and others) that I (we) have not propounded.

Ok, fine. Then if someone who himself is not using violence refuses to do or stop doing something you want do you advocate any of those 6 enforcement tools above?

First, I disagree with your definition of violence. Yes, those are violence, but there are other forms of violence as well.

Second, you need to be more specific. You say "someone who himself is not using violence", but what about threats of violence?

And it's not about what I want, it's about what we as a society have agreed upon.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-12-2013, 07:10 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2013 07:24 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 06:52 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  Sorry Sporehux but I think you are pretty much missing the entire point.

Most of the arguments against prostitution appear, to me, to be based around the results of illegal prostitution. The things you are describing would most likely not occur in a legal set up and so using them to try and justify criminalizing it is counter-productive.

http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mhvlegal.htm

Prostitution should not be legalized. Legalization means that the state imposes regulations under which women can be prostituted. In effect, regulation means that under certain conditions it is permissible to exploit and abuse women. Most arguments in favor of legalization are based on trying to distinguish between "free" and "forced" prostitution and trafficking. Considering the extreme conditions of exploitation in the sex industry, those distinctions are nothing but abstractions that make for good academic debates. They are, however, meaningless to women under the control of pimps or traffickers.

Police: You there whore number 5 , are you being treated fairly and can i see your pay check.
Pimp: SMACK. Fucken bitch you better not have said anything, and by the way your fees are due, gimme 90% of your pay check.

Why is it so hard to switch your caveman brains from , ME MAN, MUST HAVE SEX !!, WOMAN HOLE !!
to, this act has no dignity, only people mental health issues are going to enjoy sex with an unwilling participant.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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