Poll: Should Prostitution be legalized
Yes, free from government and tax
Yes, with reasonable constraints and regulations
No, because it's immoral/dehumanizes people/causes psycological trauma
No, it's against my religion
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Legalizing Prostitution
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02-12-2013, 07:24 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(02-12-2013 03:38 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Spore
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitut...etherlands
the report from Karina Schaapman about prostitution shows that almosr all the violent pimps and exploited prostitutes are not local Dutch but foreigners. This means that legalizing it works and make it safer, because otherwise holand' prostitutes would also be exploited. So it's an immigration and human trafficking issue. And Job Cohenstitution side does NOT want to criminalize it again, they do want to leave it decriminalized,they just want to get a better grip on the trafficking of foreigners.

I think that human trafficking has increased because in the EU the have
opened the borders between the EU countries in 1999, not because of legalization
in 2000. Besides, legalization in 2000 was not a big change, because before
that prostitutes were tolerated and not prosecuted.
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02-12-2013, 07:27 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(01-12-2013 10:51 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 10:33 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  because it hasn't happened in the past,while the legalisation has led to a decrease in % of the illegal prostitution,wich is a realistic goal.

Where is the evidence for this, all cases ive searched show a huge uptake in illegal workers to accomodated the increase3d customer base.

This PDF pretty much covers most arguments for legalisation. (Melissa Farley is a bit of a crack pot, but most of the observations I agree with)
http://www.prostitutionresearch.com/pdfs...203-09.pdf

1. MYTH: Legalizing prostitution gets rid of its criminal elements - pimps and
traffickers.

2. MYTH: Men need sex therefore prostitution must exist. Prostitution is a natural
form of human sexuality


3. MYTH: Prostitution is sexual liberation


4. MYTH Women choose to enter prostitution. It’s better to choose to make lots of
money as a prostitute than to choose to work at a minimum wage job like McDonald’s.


5. MYTH : Prostitution is a victimless crime. Legal prostitution protects women in
prostitution.


6. MYTH: Most prostitution does not involve pimps.


7. MYTH: Legalizing prostitution would protect sexually exploited children. When
prostitution is legal, licensed brothel owners do not hire minors or trafficked women.


8. MYTH: Prostitution is the world’s oldest profession.


9. MYTH: Social stigma is the most harmful aspect of prostitution.


10. MYTH: If you try to abolish prostitution, it will go underground.


11. MYTH: Prostitution is a deterrent to sex crimes.


12. MYTH: Pornography and stripping are not prostitution.


13. MYTH: Legalization of prostitution is an entirely separate issue from human
trafficking.


14. MYTH: Even if it’s not perfect, legalizing prostitution would at least make
prostitution a little bit better.


15. MYTH: Legalized prostitution would control the sex industry.


16. MYTH: Legal prostitution brings tremendous tax benefits to cash-strapped
regions. Nevada’s rural counties reap economic benefits from legal prostitution.


17.MYTH: If you oppose legalization of prostitution, you’re saying that prostitutes
should be arrested.


18. MYTH: If you oppose legal prostitution, you’re a moralistic, judgmental, prudish
person who is pushing your value system on people who think differently from you.
This is so ridiculous I have to go through this one by one real quick.

1. You're completely disregarding any sort of regulation or money put back into preventing illegal forms of prostitution (depending on how legalization is done, from the poll we can tell that the vast majority are for regulation and constraints, so you're arguing the wrong people).

2. Straw man, nobody has ever said anything about this.

3. Another Straw man, nobody here has encouraged prostitution, and I don't think anybody here is going to tell anybody else here to be a prostitute under the guise of "sexual liberation".

4. Yet another straw man, there have been plenty of arguments on this thread to demonstrate that the majority of us would want to minimize women forced into sex-trafficking (kinda the whole point of legalization with money flowing back into the community, even smercury is saying put the money back into the community).

5. Yet another strawman, and misleading. You're operating under the assumption that your opponents just want to legalize prostitution than clap their hands and say "job well done", as we can tell from the polling, a vast majority would not stop at just legalization. You're arguing the wrong crowd.

6. Strawman and also not-pertinent to the discussion.

7. Once again, not arguing with the right crowd.

8. Not a serious argument by anyone, and only mentioned once as a joke on the second page of this thread.

9. You're trying to discount how damaging we have made sex. Let's not forget that you can't get anything other than abstinence-only education in schools and more pictures of STIs than you can shake a stick at. Let's not forget that some women still think bikinis are far too revealing to wear. Let's not forget that losing your v-card is considered a mark of shame for women. Let's not forget the slut-shaming that goes on from before children can reasonably be expected to fornicate. Need I go on about the sexual repression that still exists? You cannot simply discount the effect that this has.

10. Newsflash, prostitution is illegal in most of the US, and it is underground. You also can't state that this did not occur in Sweden, especially since the prostitutes are not facing any risk. Non-argument (unless you mean physically underground, which would be kinda cool, but completely irrelevant).

11. The act itself? No, it isn't, and nobody is arguing that (I'm tired of saying strawman). Controlled legal prostitution could prevent it from happening to prostitutes and maybe at home, you can't really argue either side because there is no real evidence to say one way or the other. Also the money flowing into the community could be aimed at sex-related crimes (which I think a lot of us would advocate).

12. If you want to call them prostitution, that's fine, I think most of us here have gotten over the stigma of word-choice. An egg is an egg, even if you call it the devil.

13. Non-argument. Please see previous 12 points.

14. You are arguing the wrong crowd. Please see previous.

15. (You shoulda stopped at 14 like Truman) You can get a grip on it and yank it around a few times, and then use the spunk as a cleaning agent (I'm hoping you get the meaning).

16. Oh but they do, the brothels even lobbied to pay state tax, but the conservative legislation denied them.

17. Non-argument, you've made your position very clear, men are evil and the women are victims, no-matter if it's woman-on-woman or man prostitution, men are the problem. Gotcha.

18. The fact that you put this up here kindof makes me question it, but I know better, and I'm sure you're a stand-up guy (or a sit-down guy, I don't really care, I'm sitting down).
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02-12-2013, 07:35 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I voted *yes* with some constraints --- apparently I'm in the majority vote here.

(but then I think pot should be completely legal too)

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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02-12-2013, 08:57 AM (This post was last modified: 02-12-2013 09:09 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I'm tempted to do a piece by piece deconstruction but I think people might be getting bored already.

Verdict of the ladies here...

Social arguments are understood and if one can address the causes of poverty then all good but please don't take away their source of income.
Or as one put it... Ohmy So, girl eat grass?

Financial arguments are overwhelmingly in favour of prostitution.

So the decriminalisation model of most of SE Asia is welcomed.

Moral arguments fall flat and are completely rejected. They see nothing intrinsically bad or evil in what they do.

Emotion-driven decisions are not rationally derived.

Comment: Whose morality?

But then, they don't have Judeo-christian / Paulian baggage.

For an in-depth social comment regarding payment for sex, disguised as a film review... see post #800
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid386848
or main bit here if you're to lazy to go there...
(28-09-2013 07:12 AM)DLJ Wrote:  ...
Meanwhile, and I'm too lazy to make this a new thread, which of you guys pay for sex?
If you say you don't, you are lying!

E.g.
At lunch time, she says "let's go and eat".
I say, "OK, are you buying?".
She gives me that simpering I'm-a-girl look and said "I'm a cheap date".
I said "OK, this time I'll keep a running total", thinking I would prove her wrong.

Soooo....
Lunch in Chinatown (tourist prices); 2 x trousers (pants) impulse buy, leaving Chinatown; taxi; movie (+popcorn etc); taxi; Thai massage and then frog-dinner in Chinatown (again).

Total (for both of us) = $228.

Fair enough, she was right. That was not bad for a 7 hour date.

My reward? Fuck all.

But the movie was good.

I still think that there is confusion / misdirection regarding
legalised / legislated / regulated / controlled
vs.
not illegal / decriminalised / tolerated etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_law

Singapore law, btw, is that prostitution legal (i.e. not illegal), but procuring is illegal.

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02-12-2013, 09:05 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I voted yes, free from government and tax, though I would rather have tax and regulation than have it straight out illegal.

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02-12-2013, 09:27 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(02-12-2013 09:05 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I voted yes, free from government and tax, though I would rather have tax and regulation than have it straight out illegal.

That is not legalization, that is decriminalization.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-12-2013, 09:32 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I dunno which part of my response you were responding to, but both would be legalization imho. Care to explain?

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02-12-2013, 09:33 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(02-12-2013 09:32 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I dunno which part of my response you were responding to, but both would be legalization imho. Care to explain?

The decriminalization is basically just allowing it and really not doing anything about it. Legalization implies regulation and taxes (at the minimum like any other legitimate business).
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02-12-2013, 09:41 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(02-12-2013 09:33 AM)TheKetola Wrote:  
(02-12-2013 09:32 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I dunno which part of my response you were responding to, but both would be legalization imho. Care to explain?

The decriminalization is basically just allowing it and really not doing anything about it. Legalization implies regulation and taxes (at the minimum like any other legitimate business).

Not necessarily so. Many things are not strictly regulated, and in my ideal government all taxes would be indirect anyhow. It wouldn't be a tax of a good, but rather a service, though I can understand it to be decriminalized though.

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02-12-2013, 09:49 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(02-12-2013 09:32 AM)Dark Light Wrote:  I dunno which part of my response you were responding to, but both would be legalization imho. Care to explain?

TheKetola said it well.


It is essentially the definitional difference between legalization and decriminalization.
It's why we have two different words.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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