Poll: Should Prostitution be legalized
Yes, free from government and tax
Yes, with reasonable constraints and regulations
No, because it's immoral/dehumanizes people/causes psycological trauma
No, it's against my religion
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Legalizing Prostitution
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07-05-2016, 07:18 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 06:20 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  If you're saying that the prime reason that people are against legalisation is because they think shamefully of women who have tons of sex, then you're necessarily saying that women are doing the majority of shaming, since they oppose it in greater numbers than men. In which case; yes, I agree, and that doesn't sit at odds with anything I've said. We disagree in the 'why' of it, though. I think women are autonomous, so I look at female nature for the answer.

Men can be in favor of legal prostitution because it can allow easier access to sex, while simultaneously partaking in the shaming the very women that provide that. How many people disparage other people in the service industry, and how often does that actually stop them from getting fast food? You don't need to approve of a person't life choices in order to fuck them.

Or are you saying that a drug user cannot also hate his drug dealer?

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07-05-2016, 07:21 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 07:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 06:20 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  If you're saying that the prime reason that people are against legalisation is because they think shamefully of women who have tons of sex, then you're necessarily saying that women are doing the majority of shaming, since they oppose it in greater numbers than men. In which case; yes, I agree, and that doesn't sit at odds with anything I've said. We disagree in the 'why' of it, though. I think women are autonomous, so I look at female nature for the answer.

Men can be in favor of legal prostitution because it can allow easier access to sex, while simultaneously partaking in the shaming the very women that provide that. How many people disparage other people in the service industry, and how often does that actually stop them from getting fast food? You don't need to approve of a person't life choices in order to fuck them.

Or are you saying that a drug user cannot also hate his drug dealer?

No, that makes sense. I agree.
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07-05-2016, 08:58 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 07:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 06:20 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:  If you're saying that the prime reason that people are against legalisation is because they think shamefully of women who have tons of sex, then you're necessarily saying that women are doing the majority of shaming, since they oppose it in greater numbers than men. In which case; yes, I agree, and that doesn't sit at odds with anything I've said. We disagree in the 'why' of it, though. I think women are autonomous, so I look at female nature for the answer.

Men can be in favor of legal prostitution because it can allow easier access to sex, while simultaneously partaking in the shaming the very women that provide that. How many people disparage other people in the service industry, and how often does that actually stop them from getting fast food? You don't need to approve of a person't life choices in order to fuck them.

Or are you saying that a drug user cannot also hate his drug dealer?

That is a problem unrelated to prostitution being legalized. If a man disparages prostitutes (while maybe secretly going with them), he will do it whether it's legal or not.

My opinion is that prostitution should be legal because of safety reasons (the women), the fact that it will reduce the illicit traffic, and because it's a freaking job, and jobs should be regulated. They would pay taxes, have medical cover, and so on.

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07-05-2016, 09:00 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
Before I vote, does the option "Yes, free from government and tax" mean that they shouldn't pay tax?

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07-05-2016, 09:19 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2016 09:37 AM by Heatheness.)
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
We are a product of our culture, like it or not. Our history of a male dominated society is still with us today. Men used shame to control women and even used shame to have the women they controlled control other women so, yes, women shame other women. Men also shame other men. Nothing new there.

This is another reason why feminism is important, so women can learn to be supportive and not finger pointers for whatever the reason (religion induced shame being a huge one here). Women also vote against their own best interest, look at Repub women voting away their rights. This is not equal nor independent thinking, it's cultural indoctrination or lazy groupthink and it too is a control mechanism.

The idea that more women than men want to keep it illegal has many factors.

Devaluing a product - sex
Dehumanizing/objectification
Health risks increase - disease
Health risks increase - abuse
Higher risks of child sex trafficking
Criminal activity risks increase
Poverty risks increase
Higher risk for unintended pregnancy (higher risk for abortion necessity, higher risk for children born into poverty/abuse)
Society denouncement
Financial security risks

All of these things are at much higher percentage for this industry and even though there are men in this field of work the majority is still women. So you can see that cultural/religious shame is not the only reason more women want it illegal. Because of feminism where women are taught to value women they don't want to see other women flushing their potential down the proverbial toilet.

Men on the other see a product they desire that would be cheaper, more readily available and disposable with little risks and very few of them to him long term, except for possible pregnancy and disease, both of which he also has control over. That they support legalization more is understandable, they get the majority of the benefits without much risk or responsibility. Nothing new there. Whereas, maybe the "more women" who choose illegal see (at this point in time) the end product in a more realistic future, creating an entire class of legal sex slaves.

I have no cultural bias on this issue, your body-your choice BUT that being said I want it to be an educated choice NOT a choice of desperation both for women and men. We don't have that kind of equality in our country or culture, not yet. No one should ever go into prostitution because they are uneducated, poor, drug addicted, can't find work or desperate to feed themselves or their family. People should be able to choose what they want to do for a living but they should not be forced into it by unfortunate circumstances. That is not prostitution, that's sex slavery.

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07-05-2016, 09:49 AM (This post was last modified: 07-05-2016 09:59 AM by Blackhand293.)
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 09:19 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  We are a product of our culture, like it or not. Our history of a male dominated society is still with us today. Men used shame to control women and even used shame to have the women they controlled control other women so, yes, women shame other women. Men also shame other men. Nothing new there.

I'm sorry but I need a citation for that? Do woman only shame others because men?

(07-05-2016 09:19 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  This is another reason why feminism is important, so women can learn to be supportive and not finger pointers for whatever the reason (religion induced shame being a huge one here). Women also vote against their own best interest, look at Repub women voting away their rights. This is not equal nor independent thinking, it's cultural indoctrination or lazy groupthink and it too is a control mechanism.

Again woman have agency. They can think for them selves, you don't represent all woman every where, nor do you know how all women think. Your Ideological bias is showing here.

(07-05-2016 09:19 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  The idea that more women than men want to keep it illegal has many factors.

Devaluing a product - sex
Dehumanizing/objectification
Health risks increase - disease
Health risks increase - abuse
Higher risks of child sex trafficking
Criminal activity risks increase
Poverty risks increase
Higher risk for unintended pregnancy (higher risk for abortion necessity, higher risk for children born into poverty/abuse)
Society denouncement
Financial security risks

Um how does increased financial security, greater security nets and greater social acceptance lead to more harm?

Ideological bias overload. Its a control issue as highlighted by your first item. When woman have less social power through being gatekeepers of sex, it mean they have less social power.

(07-05-2016 09:19 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Men on the other see a product they desire that would be cheaper, more readily available and disposable with little risks and very few of them to him long term, except for possible pregnancy and disease, both of which he also has control over. That they support legalization more is understandable, they get the majority of the benefits without much risk or responsibility. Nothing new there. Whereas, maybe the "more women" who choose illegal see (at this point in time) the end product in a more realistic future, creating an entire class of legal sex slaves.

Have you given any though as to why it may be that they want less risk? You know false rape accusations, paternity fraud, reproductive coercion?

(07-05-2016 09:19 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  I have no cultural bias on this issue, your body-your choice BUT that being said I want it to be an educated choice NOT a choice of desperation both for women and men. We don't have that kind of equality in our country or culture, not yet. No one should ever go into prostitution because they are uneducated, poor, drug addicted, can't find work or desperate to feed themselves or their family. People should be able to choose what they want to do for a living but they should not be forced into it by unfortunate circumstances. That is not prostitution, that's sex slavery.

While I support the decriminalization of prostitution I do not see it as causing harm to those who choose to go into it if it were legal. I believe woman have the ability to choose for themselves, ya know agency.

You claim to have no cultural bias in this but I do see an ideological bias in what you put forward. Legalized prostitution would give woman benefits, that you fail to see that is symptomatic of ideological bias. Your bias has blinded you to reality.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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07-05-2016, 10:01 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 09:49 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 09:19 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  We are a product of our culture, like it or not. Our history of a male dominated society is still with us today. Men used shame to control women and even used shame to have the women they controlled control other women so, yes, women shame other women. Men also shame other men. Nothing new there.

This is another reason why feminism is important, so women can learn to be supportive and not finger pointers for whatever the reason (religion induced shame being a huge one here). Women also vote against their own best interest, look at Repub women voting away their rights. This is not equal nor independent thinking, it's cultural indoctrination or lazy groupthink and it too is a control mechanism.

The idea that more women than men want to keep it illegal has many factors.

Devaluing a product - sex
Dehumanizing/objectification
Health risks increase - disease
Health risks increase - abuse
Higher risks of child sex trafficking
Criminal activity risks increase
Poverty risks increase
Higher risk for unintended pregnancy (higher risk for abortion necessity, higher risk for children born into poverty/abuse)
Society denouncement
Financial security risks

All of these things are at much higher percentage for this industry and even though there are men in this field of work the majority is still women. So you can see that cultural/religious shame is not the only reason more women want it illegal. Because of feminism where women are taught to value women they don't want to see other women flushing their potential down the proverbial toilet.

Men on the other see a product they desire that would be cheaper, more readily available and disposable with little risks and very few of them to him long term, except for possible pregnancy and disease, both of which he also has control over. That they support legalization more is understandable, they get the majority of the benefits without much risk or responsibility. Nothing new there. Whereas, maybe the "more women" who choose illegal see (at this point in time) the end product in a more realistic future, creating an entire class of legal sex slaves.

I have no cultural bias on this issue, your body-your choice BUT that being said I want it to be an educated choice NOT a choice of desperation both for women and men. We don't have that kind of equality in our country or culture, not yet. No one should ever go into prostitution because they are uneducated, poor, drug addicted, can't find work or desperate to feed themselves or their family. People should be able to choose what they want to do for a living but they should not be forced into it by unfortunate circumstances. That is not prostitution, that's sex slavery.

While I support the decriminalization of prostitution I do not see it as causing harm to those who choose to go into it if it were legal. I believe woman have the ability to choose for themselves, ya know agency.

You claim to have no cultural bias in this but I do see an ideological bias in what you put forward. Legalized prostitution would give woman benefits, that you fail to see that is symptomatic of ideological bias, have you given any though as to why it may be that they want less risk? You know false rape accusations, paternity fraud, reproductive coercion?

Or should men just suffer in silence and proceed as is because woman would loose some of the social power they hold over men?

This is the only ideology I put forward: "I have no cultural bias on this issue, your body-your choice BUT that being said I want it to be an educated choice NOT a choice of desperation both for women and men. We don't have that kind of equality in our country or culture, not yet. No one should ever go into prostitution because they are uneducated, poor, drug addicted, can't find work or desperate to feed themselves or their family. People should be able to choose what they want to do for a living but they should not be forced into it by unfortunate circumstances. That is not prostitution, that's sex slavery."

Everything before that is what I think motivates other women to vote against legalization. I would vote for it as long as they were health regulated and had industry support with rights and protection of every other worker in our country.

Not sure what else you mean.

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07-05-2016, 10:31 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 10:01 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 09:49 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  While I support the decriminalization of prostitution I do not see it as causing harm to those who choose to go into it if it were legal. I believe woman have the ability to choose for themselves, ya know agency.

You claim to have no cultural bias in this but I do see an ideological bias in what you put forward. Legalized prostitution would give woman benefits, that you fail to see that is symptomatic of ideological bias, have you given any though as to why it may be that they want less risk? You know false rape accusations, paternity fraud, reproductive coercion?

Or should men just suffer in silence and proceed as is because woman would loose some of the social power they hold over men?

This is the only ideology I put forward: "I have no cultural bias on this issue, your body-your choice BUT that being said I want it to be an educated choice NOT a choice of desperation both for women and men. We don't have that kind of equality in our country or culture, not yet. No one should ever go into prostitution because they are uneducated, poor, drug addicted, can't find work or desperate to feed themselves or their family. People should be able to choose what they want to do for a living but they should not be forced into it by unfortunate circumstances. That is not prostitution, that's sex slavery."

Everything before that is what I think motivates other women to vote against legalization. I would vote for it as long as they were health regulated and had industry support with rights and protection of every other worker in our country.

Not sure what else you mean.

So you skipped this one: This is another reason why feminism is important.
and this one Because of feminism

Also I was responding to the ideologically influenced list of outcomes you posted you know the one where you claim that legalization would lead to legal sex slavery because reasons?

That is why I claimed you were blinded by an ideology.

The requirement of evidence to back your claim does not disappear because it hurts your feelings, reality does not care about your feefees.
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07-05-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I think it should be legalized and treated like any other job, except with mandatory health checks.

Whenever you look at something that continues to be practiced for a long time despite being illegal, it needs to be decriminalized and managed properly. The stigma needs to be removed, and, in this case, the pimps.

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07-05-2016, 11:47 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(07-05-2016 10:31 AM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(07-05-2016 10:01 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  This is the only ideology I put forward: "I have no cultural bias on this issue, your body-your choice BUT that being said I want it to be an educated choice NOT a choice of desperation both for women and men. We don't have that kind of equality in our country or culture, not yet. No one should ever go into prostitution because they are uneducated, poor, drug addicted, can't find work or desperate to feed themselves or their family. People should be able to choose what they want to do for a living but they should not be forced into it by unfortunate circumstances. That is not prostitution, that's sex slavery."

Everything before that is what I think motivates other women to vote against legalization. I would vote for it as long as they were health regulated and had industry support with rights and protection of every other worker in our country.

Not sure what else you mean.

So you skipped this one: This is another reason why feminism is important.
and this one Because of feminism

Also I was responding to the ideologically influenced list of outcomes you posted you know the one where you claim that legalization would lead to legal sex slavery because reasons?

That is why I claimed you were blinded by an ideology.

And you added/edited 50% more post to your original post...wtf?

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