Poll: Should Prostitution be legalized
Yes, free from government and tax
Yes, with reasonable constraints and regulations
No, because it's immoral/dehumanizes people/causes psycological trauma
No, it's against my religion
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Legalizing Prostitution
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16-05-2016, 07:16 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:12 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Leave it to DLJ to be all professional and shit... Tongue

Well it is how I earn my (unworthy and corrupt) living, sooo ... yeah.

Sorry.

Blush

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16-05-2016, 07:21 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Maybe (if you ladies don't mind me inserting myself into the conversation), I can have a go at clarifying...

Google says:
Quote:pros·ti·tu·tion
ˌprästəˈt(y)o͞oSH(ə)n/
noun
the practice or occupation of engaging in sexual activity with someone for payment.
...
the unworthy or corrupt use of one's talents for the sake of personal or financial gain.

Using the first part of that, there should be no confusion ... it's the second part that muddles things up.

The latter is also problematic because it can take us into moralistic notions of holier-than-thou-ness (unworthy or corrupt in whose opinion?!?!).

So perhaps this can help:

[Image: Supplier_categorization.png]

The transaction, in simplistic terms, relates to access to sexual activity in exchange for some form of security.

Most forms of prostitution would obviously fall into the 'commodity' supplier category.

An operational category is harder to exemplify in the context of sex as typical examples of operational suppliers would be maybe a gardener or cleaner... but maybe the service offered in the movie The Sessions might fit the bill.

The 'sugarbabe' scenario (see undergoundP's last paragraph and perhaps Moms' barfly friend) is in the tactical category. It's more akin to a friendship (with or without benefits).

A strategic supplier relationship, given its characteristics of equality (sharing confidential information; common vision etc.) is often just called a 'partnership' or in this context it's the marriage (to which Heatheness referred).

So given the google definition, which of the four categories would cover prostitution best?

I'd say, just the first one: Commodity (on both sides of the transaction).

And if it counts for anything, my friends, who engage in this work but also have sugar-daddies, agree; bar-work is commodity-prostitution but friends with benefits is a tactical relationship (and has led to marriage on quite a few occasions).

I hope that helps.

Smartass

Nice analysis.

Now, can you translate that in English please? Rolleyes

Are you implying that all relationships are transactions and both parties in a relationship care about gaining something off of it?

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16-05-2016, 07:40 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
Just because you pay legally for prostitution doesn't mean it's ethical by any means. Think about how many sex slaves there are in the world. Think about how many children are being stolen from their parents in order to satisfy the hunger of sexual immorality. What about all the women that are imprisoned because of their drug addition. Have you ever seen, the movie, Hostel? Those people pay high dollar to kill people. Does that justify good behavior?
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16-05-2016, 07:48 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:12 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-05-2016 07:07 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Just 'semi'? Huh

Yup. I think we're getting into definitional territory here.


Maybe (if you ladies don't mind me inserting myself into the conversation), I can have a go at clarifying...

Google says:

Using the first part of that, there should be no confusion ... it's the second part that muddles things up.

The latter is also problematic because it can take us into moralistic notions of holier-than-thou-ness.

So perhaps this can help:

[Image: Supplier_categorization.png]

The transaction, in simplistic terms, relates to access to sexual activity in exchange for some form of security.

Most forms of prostitution would obviously fall into the 'commodity' supplier category.

An operational category is harder to exemplify in the context of sex as typical examples of operational suppliers would be maybe a gardener or cleaner... but maybe the service offered in the movie The Sessions might fit the bill.

The 'sugarbabe' scenario (see undergoundP's last paragraph and perhaps Moms' barfly friend) is in the tactical category. It's more akin to a friendship (with or without benefits).

A strategic supplier relationship, given its characteristics of equality (sharing confidential information; common vision etc.) is often just called a 'partnership' or in this context it's the marriage (to which Heatheness referred).

So given the google definition, which of the four categories would cover prostitution best?

I'd say, just the first one: Commodity (on both sides of the transaction).

And if it counts for anything, my friends, who engage in this work but also have sugar-daddies, agree; bar-work is commodity-prostitution but friends with benefits is a tactical relationship (and has led to marriage on quite a few occasions).

I hope that helps.

Smartass


Yup. I hate it when people do that.

Shy


Leave it to DLJ to be all professional and shit... Tongue

Yes and he does it for free... what a whore! Laugh out load

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16-05-2016, 07:52 AM (This post was last modified: 16-05-2016 08:21 AM by DLJ.)
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:21 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  ...
Nice analysis.

Now, can you translate that in English please? Rolleyes

Are you implying that all relationships are transactions and both parties in a relationship care about gaining something off of it?

Would you prefer a Greek translation? Can't do that.

I'm not implying it. I'm stating it.

The different categories require different levels of investment / effort relative to cost and risk but they're all transaction-based.

Yes

EDIT: I'd better add, because I know I'm sounding hyper-clinical, that not all transactions are premeditated. Human nature has an instinctive transactional element.

Smile

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16-05-2016, 08:10 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:40 AM)Truthwaylife Wrote:  Just because you pay legally for prostitution doesn't mean it's ethical by any means.

Personal opinions. And in this case your freedom of thought ends when it infringes on someone else's freedom of doing whatever they want.

(16-05-2016 07:40 AM)Truthwaylife Wrote:  Think about how many sex slaves there are in the world.

If prostitution was legal, that would drastically be reduced, because prostitutes would be workers like anyone else: they'd pay their taxes, they'd have health insurance, and so on.

(16-05-2016 07:40 AM)Truthwaylife Wrote:  Think about how many children are being stolen from their parents in order to satisfy the hunger of sexual immorality.

I don't see what this has to do with anything. When we say "legalize prostitution", we are talking of independent, consenting adults, not children. You need to prosecute those people who contribute to that, not prostitutes. A prostitute is not hurting anybody. Why would someone else having sex for money bother anyone else? If someone chooses to do that, it's their own freaking business and nobody else's.

(16-05-2016 07:40 AM)Truthwaylife Wrote:  What about all the women that are imprisoned because of their drug addition. Have you ever seen, the movie, Hostel? Those people pay high dollar to kill people. Does that justify good behavior?

Ehm, Hostel is a movie and holds no weight in this discussion, so I'm going to ignore that.

Drug addiction can be related to prostitution, but is a totally independent topic. People who fall into drug addiction must be helped, not imprisoned. You're not helping anybody by imprisoning them.

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16-05-2016, 08:49 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
I'm going to meander about while I think this out. Forewarned.

So if a woman WANTS to be a sex worker she should be able to. There are women who want to do that and that's fine. Nor should their johns be criminalized. If a man wants quick sex then that should be fine.

Also, the men I've talked to who have used prostitutes describe the experience as "meh." Not what they prefer but something they did at the time. It was convenient.

On the other side there are a LOT of women who don't want to be sex workers. They are forced into it, through sex slavery or by family or romantic partners. While legal prostitution might decrease the former I'm not as sure about the latter. Remember that abuse is currently illegal, but how many people get away with it?
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16-05-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:52 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Would you prefer a Greek translation? Can't do that.

I'm not implying it. I'm stating it.

The different categories require different levels of investment / effort relative to cost and risk but they're all transaction-based.

Yes

EDIT: I'd better add, because I know I'm sounding hyper-clinical, that not all transactions are premeditated. Human nature has an instinctive transactional element.

Smile

Actually, I didn't mean to write "imply". I wanted to ask if you meant what I thought you meant.

And I asked if you could put it more simply because I do know what all those words mean, but not when used as business jargon (for example I know what the words "operational" and "supplier" mean, but I have no idea what an "operational supplier" is).

Also, claiming that human nature has an instinctive transactional element sounds like an innacurate oversimplification of both human nature and human relationships.

If I go out with a friend and he buys me a coffee, it won't be because he wants to fuck me or because he expects something from me. He's probably doing it to make me happy or to feel better about himself (I tend to have those kinds of friendships where if the other person wants to fuck me, they feel free to express it). Also, I don't see how the term "sugarbabe" is related to this scenario.

Now, we can either say that prostitution is a job or, accepting that all human interactions and relationships are transactions, call everything prostitution. I don't think the latter is very convenient, especially given the definition you provided ("unworthy and corrupt").

So, there is still a grey area (as in Moms' example of dating and receiving dinner or gifts and having sex). Moms says that's prostitution. I say it's not, because it's not a job, nor is it "unworthy" or "corrupt". Some cases might be, but many won't. Going on a date does not always have to do with sex or any kind of transaction. Sometimes it's simply "let's see if we like each other".

And I mean, don't get me wrong, I have no problem with certain "transactions" of the kind being thought of as prostitution. I've considered receiving money in exchange for sexual favors and although I haven't gone through with it, there's no shame in it. But claiming that I'm a prostitute because I accepted a gift or dinner and then had sex? You know, women enjoy sex too. I don't mind the "label", I mind the implications.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
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16-05-2016, 08:56 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 07:40 AM)Truthwaylife Wrote:  Just because you pay legally for prostitution doesn't mean it's ethical by any means. Think about how many sex slaves there are in the world. Think about how many children are being stolen from their parents in order to satisfy the hunger of sexual immorality. What about all the women that are imprisoned because of their drug addition. Have you ever seen, the movie, Hostel? Those people pay high dollar to kill people. Does that justify good behavior?

If you take the crime out of it, there will be no need for pimps. Many countries have it legal and they have brothels or districts where prostitutes have rooms. No pimps needed. And if you take the pimps out, the whole criminal aspect collapses. It's just women who decide to go into business for themselves.

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16-05-2016, 09:17 AM
RE: Legalizing Prostitution
(16-05-2016 08:49 AM)natachan Wrote:  On the other side there are a LOT of women who don't want to be sex workers. They are forced into it, through sex slavery or by family or romantic partners. While legal prostitution might decrease the former I'm not as sure about the latter. Remember that abuse is currently illegal, but how many people get away with it?

True, and legalizing prostitution won't magically solve all problems related to it, but I think it will improve the situation considerably from what we currently have.

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