Poll: Should Prostitution be legalized
Yes, free from government and tax
Yes, with reasonable constraints and regulations
No, because it's immoral/dehumanizes people/causes psycological trauma
No, it's against my religion
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Legalizing Prostitution
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01-12-2013, 03:40 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
(01-12-2013 02:39 PM)sporehux Wrote:  No, ill forgive you for not reading everything, but I specificity said the crime is on the Johns

Fine, but that doesn't change that YOU are the one using violence, doing the same thing club-wielding neanderthals did a million years ago; use violence to coerce people into doing things against their will.

(01-12-2013 02:39 PM)sporehux Wrote:  A large proportion of prostitutes are raped, day in, day out... women are trafficked into the country by gangsters and forced to work illegally. Up to 90 per cent of Amsterdam’s 8,000 prostitutes are thought to have been forced into the business.

But you're combining 2 separate, unrelated issues. Of course, forcing women to have sex or sell themselves should be criminal. And anybody who does that should be dealt with violently because he himself is dealing with others violently. So I'm not disputing you on this here.

Where I am disputing is that if two consensual adults voluntarily agree to do something because they both feel it's a win-win, it's none of your fucking business. It's not up to you to play God and dictate their morality.

I'm sure you, like everybody else, does some things that other people don't like. Maybe somebody thinks you waste too much time reading this forum and should do something more productive with your life. How would you like it if they stormed into your house and hauled you away at gunpoint because they didn't approve of your behavior?

Don't keep changing the subject and going back to forced prostitution. I don't think anybody's defending that.
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01-12-2013, 03:40 PM (This post was last modified: 01-12-2013 03:48 PM by sporehux.)
RE: Legalizing Prositution
(01-12-2013 03:31 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 03:16 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Well there's that, I get that my definition of "slavery" is not taking.
And all of you think its ok for a woman to sell themselves because of debts.

But the evidence is that existing workers, the well to do, and the down trodden will not
Benefit from any legalization, it will just be the newly recruited workers who choose or are allowed by their pimps to register as sex workers getting taxed for some benefits.

To allow men to act as dominate thugs demanding sex, is akin to following the bibles treatment of women.
What do you mean "sell themselves" ?
Your positions, seems to me, comes from sex being a taboo for you.

I don't think prostitute "sells him/herself" more then anybody else who provides a service. In what way is it different from hiring somebody to unload a truck , or to do a pedicure for you?

If prostitution is legal and regulated, where is the need for pimps?
If some woman is willing to work as a prostitute in a society where prostitution is legal there is no need for a pimp.
In that situation prostitute wouldn't need a pimp more then a hairdresser needs one.

Nope, sex is not taboo, I'm prosex, what I'm unsuccessfully trying to get across.
Is that existing volunteer sexworkers are fine, they don't need legalising as they can choose not to work. Legalising will help the tiny few that are willing to go on record as a sex worker.
"The Dutch government hoped to play the role of the honourable pimp, taking its share in the proceeds of prostitution through taxation. But only 5 per cent of the women registered for tax, because no one wants to be known as a whore "

On the other hand legal brothels create incentives for organised crime to round up as many vulnerable women as possible to generate an income for themselves.

The brothel boom is over. A third of Amsterdam’s bordellos have been closed due to the involvement of organised criminals and drug dealers and the increase in trafficking of women. Police now acknowledge that the red-light district has mutated into a global hub for human trafficking and money laundering. The streets have been infiltrated by grooming gangs seeking out young, vulnerable girls and marketing them to men as virgins who will do whatever they are told http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/8835...-for-sale/

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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01-12-2013, 03:42 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
Id like to think sexual acts are quite different from a manicure, or unloading a truck.. For some people it is an emotional act. Usually more so for women than for men (but not always). So for women to get I to this kind of job just for the money can be very emotionally damaging.

If it were women over 35 (allowing them to pursue othe job opportunities prior to this field), could pass an intelligence test, and all proceeds went to charity (this way it would really only be women signing up that REALLY want to have sex with random strangers) Maybe then I could get on board with it, but until then, there would be too many women signing up for a job like this that really would wish they could do something else for the same money. But if society made it seem a viable option.

Like I said, I don't care what consenting adults do behind closed doors, but I don't know if I can consider it true consent if these women don't have as many options to make that kind of money.
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01-12-2013, 03:47 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
(01-12-2013 03:40 PM)sporehux Wrote:  On the other hand legal brothels create incentives for organised crime to round up as many vulnerable women as possible to generate an income for themselves.

I don't see how that follows, though.

At best you're saying, "if it's legal it will be abused". Very well, then - how is that different from anything else?. Except for the part where if it's illegal, it will be necessarily worse, there then being no recourse or regulation...

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01-12-2013, 03:51 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
We're _ALL_ prostitutes:

A man goes up to a beautiful woman at the bar and says "I'll pay you $1 million to have sex with me." She says "Sure". He says, "Ok, well will you do it for $200?" She says: "What do you think I am? A prostitute?" He says, "We've already established that, now we're just negotiating the price."

The point is that probably anybody who was secular and non-religious WOULD be willing to do something sexual for a price. If a man offered you $1 billion to show your breasts, something you do for free at the doctor's office anyway, would you seriously say 'no'?

The _REAL_ problem is you need to grow the economy so that there's lots of jobs and women have better options to make a good living. IMO, the prostitution problem is really more about a bad economy.

I'll keep mentioning my favorite libertarian paradise; Switzerland. Prostitution is, of course, totally legal. But they don't have the same problems like other places? Why? Because they focused on growing the economy. If a woman's choices are to be homeless and hungry, or sell her body, most women would choose the latter I imagine. You're trying fixing the symptom, not cure the disease.
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01-12-2013, 03:55 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
If what I mentioned is not enough, prostitution here is legal but still most of the women work illegally.

Even though brothels are legal, they still work illegally. Because hey, legal or not, no one is 100% legal. I doubt there is any difference. Especially in a field where exploitation is common.

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01-12-2013, 03:56 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
(01-12-2013 03:47 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(01-12-2013 03:40 PM)sporehux Wrote:  On the other hand legal brothels create incentives for organised crime to round up as many vulnerable women as possible to generate an income for themselves.

I don't see how that follows, though.

At best you're saying, "if it's legal it will be abused". Very well, then - how is that different from anything else?. Except for the part where if it's illegal, it will be necessarily worse, there then being no recourse or regulation...
There is no "will be" there is hard evidence it is and has been abused.
I've allready quoted too much , just scroll back.

Even if you are ok with prostitution how can you be ok with a 100%-200% increase in sex workers most of them coerced , that will come from legalisation .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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01-12-2013, 04:03 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
(01-12-2013 03:56 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Even if you are ok with prostitution how can you be ok with a 100%-200% increase in sex workers most of them coerced , that will come from legalisation .

So all the mafia pimps behind it all will be like "hey, we've been doing this illegally for 50 years with hundreds of women and now it is legal, so we can have a couple more hundreds of women"? Huh

I'm sorry if my query is too simpleminded.

"Behind every great pirate, there is a great butt."
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01-12-2013, 04:05 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
Just want to point out that there is a male population of sex workers, probably not substantial enough to matter to anyone, but it's there, why are they safe from abuse? And why can't the same happen for women?
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01-12-2013, 04:06 PM
RE: Legalizing Prositution
(01-12-2013 03:01 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Your kidding, its an example why it should not be legalised
.www.rememberoursisterseverywhere.com/profiles/blogs/germany-having-second-thoughts-on-legalized-prostitution


BERLIN: A decade after Germany loosened already relaxed restrictions on prostitution, a debate has kicked off to again ban the trade, with leading feminist Alice Schwarzer labeling the country “a paradise for pimps.”

Dozens of politicians, actors and journalists this month have signed Schwarzer’s appeal to Chancellor Angela Merkel and parliament to abolish sex work.

“We know there is slavery in the world today, but there is no modern democratic country that would tolerate, accept or promote slavery,” she said at a recent Berlin press conference on her new book “Prostitution, A German Scandal.”

“However, Germany tolerates, accepts and promotes prostitution, mostly at the expense of the poorest women from neighboring countries.”

She urged a review of the 2002 law – passed under a center-left Social Democrats-Greens coalition government – that theoretically gave sex workers access to unemployment insurance, controlled working conditions and medical coverage.

The founder of the feminist magazine Emma argued that the law backfired and has turned Germany into a “paradise for pimps” who can now more easily exploit women, especially from poorer central European countries like Romania and Bulgaria.

Schwarzer, 70, said this “liberalization of prostitution has been a disaster for the people involved,” estimating the number of prostitutes working in Germany now at 700,000. ...
You may want to do your research on Alice Schwarzer before quoting her as an authority on anything. Laughat

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