Legalizing drugs?
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26-03-2010, 09:25 PM
Legalizing drugs?
It's something I've found somewhat interesting, though it's a little bit early for me to take a side. I'm more or less talking about the harder drugs, meth, cocaine, heroine, ect...Paraphrasing arguments,
Pro:
It will lower gang violence; It can be taxed.

Con:
It will encourage drug use; They will become more widely available to teens.

Wondering what you think. If I'm missing anything for or against, feel free to say.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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26-03-2010, 11:56 PM
 
RE: Legalizing drugs?
I've done all those drugs in the past 30 years (meth, cocaine, and heroine) as well as pot, hash, opium, morphine, LSD, mushrooms, nitrous oxide, PCP, tobacco, alcohol, and a host of prescription drugs at some point with varying degrees of usage so I may be able to speak to this a little bit (never used a needle for anything). All of these very definitely need to be de-criminalized with the exception of meth-amphetamines and PCP. These are so insidious because of the devastating psychological deterioration that ultimately creates psychosis. And one of these should be legalized for adults immediately. Of course that would be marijuana (and hash). Will kids be able to get a hold of pot more easily?--maybe a little but not by much (it never hurt me any). Just like booze, kids will get a hold of it. De-criminalization is not the same as legalization and that's where a lot of people get confused. And large scale drug trafficking and street pushing are also different than dealing or possessing. Also using and abusing are different than addiction. So you can see how complicated it gets.

The problem with making these things criminal is that addicts and abusers will be deterred from getting the help they really need. Drugs are dangerous when they are misused. So is sex. So is driving a car. Driving a car while drinking, snorting coke, smoking weed and having sex (oral) is usually not a good idea although I have pulled it off a several times (long road trips). But I digress. The message of abstinence does not address the real life problems that exist. I don't believe in promoting drug use, but to tell people they can't do something without clearly articulating the ramifications, is inviting disaster. People have been doing some form of recreational drug from the dawn of man (as well as many other species of animals) and it may well have been the impetus that accelerated human evolution. We're not going to stop it no matter how many people we lock up. And trust me, there's plenty of drugs being used in the prison system (from what I've heard from friends). So the key hear is decriminalization. We need to treat it as a public health issue, just as we do alcoholism and any other mental disorder.

If we can create an honest dialogue, then we can begin to sort this stuff out. To lump it all into one big barrel and say 'don't touch this' is naive, counterproductive, as well as, I believe, unconstitutional. Same with sex. If we don't honestly address the safe way and dangerous way to do this stuff then the dangerous way will win most of the time. Just like using a gun, or a car, you need to be educated so you won't hurt yourself and others. Yeah, there will always be abusers--I've been there plenty of times myself. And yes some people will become addicted. I've never had that problem but have had many friends that have. Making this a jail-able offense only hinders people from getting the help they need (not to mention ruining there lives and becoming a burden to the state) and it makes it very nerve racking to people like myself who have mastered my own mental management and know quite well how to conduct my usage.

Yes, tax weed. This is a huge source of revenue that just gets put back into the drug cartels so that they can push more of the bad crap out there and keep money coming in for weaponry. We really should be more worried about the proliferation of guns than anything else (it's harder to kill people with knives and other methods). Pot is legal in thirteen U.S. states for people with prescriptions and soon it will be over half of the states. Unfortunately federal law still considers pot use and possession a crime but recently President Obama has directed law enforcement to ignore the small fish and go after the big ones.

As far as gang activity--this is more of a socio-economic problem and can be addressed in so many ways that are just not being tried. And they won't be studied and resolved if we go about this the same way we always have. It's a failed drug policy and it's time to step up and put the resources where they need to go to affect this crisis more rationally.

Now, I'm not going to sit here and pretend I have all of the answers--we're just brushing the surface here and that's about all my brain can take for now. As far as taxation and gangs as opposed to influence an availability---these are more talking points for politicians and legislators than anything else. It's a hugely complex issue that is tied to so many other issues and it isn't going away with this crass form of lip service. The problem with burying your head in the sand is that you can't see anything. Education, education, education is the key. Let psychologists, scientists, academics, and medical people work with this and get the criminal justice system out of there. Bad people are going to commit crimes. But by blindly advocating a zero tolerance policy is unethical. When you make criminals out of decent citizens by creating bad policy, you defeat the goal of a peaceful and well managed society. It's like making gay sex illegal--it won't stop it from happening and you end up criminalizing normal behavior. Or a better example would be prostitution. You ultimately have more control over it if it is regulated, taxed, and de-stigmatized than you do through the utilization of the criminal justice system. I have way more to say about this in the future but at least Ashley put the issue out there and I appreciate that.
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27-03-2010, 10:17 AM
RE: Legalizing drugs?
Well, I'm going to side with Grassharpper... He pretty much covered every relevant argument I had so... yeah...

Decriminalization and regulation will not only make the drugs more safe but it will lower crime, and I think that's the bottom line.

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27-03-2010, 11:48 AM
RE: Legalizing drugs?
You make very good points Grassharpper. In too many situations our solution is to put people in time out for several years. It does nothing, and I think we need a more tactful approach. Anyway, I'm not getting arguments against, and I wanted some on both sides. Do you mind if I copy and paste your post in other places(Not claiming it to be my own words of course), to try to get reasons to not legalize/de-criminalize?

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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27-03-2010, 12:23 PM
 
RE: Legalizing drugs?
(27-03-2010 11:48 AM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  You make very good points Grassharpper. In too many situations our solution is to put people in time out for several years. It does nothing, and I think we need a more tactful approach. Anyway, I'm not getting arguments against, and I wanted some on both sides. Do you mind if I copy and paste your post in other places(Not claiming it to be my own words of course), to try to get reasons to not legalize/de-criminalize?
Absolutely Ashley--do what you will. I wrote so quickly because this subject is so close to me that I really didn't properly expound on some of the more complicated nuances. There's is definitely more to this picture than meets the eye.
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27-03-2010, 12:49 PM
RE: Legalizing drugs?
Alright, thanks. I did post it here:
http://gamers4jesus.org/forums/index.php...g14887#new
I'm not sure if you can view it, this site tends to be locked up pretty well. But, if you're interested, there it is. I'm pretty sure it will get a lot of opposition there.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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27-03-2010, 03:36 PM
 
RE: Legalizing drugs?
That's funny. I read that first response from that poor soul on that website. We already tried prohibition--it flatly does not work. It creates more problems than it solves. Declaring "war" against your own citizens does not work. Again, more problems created than solved. People have a right in this country to eliminate bad laws and impose fair restrictions and they are voting in mass numbers to do that. Pot will be legal. Get over it. It's only a matter of time before pot users will denounce this form of discrimination and start marching in the streets. And the Constitutional "pursuit of happiness" and "freedom" does include my right to do with my mind and body what I choose as long as it doesn't directly affect anyone else's right to the same. The severity of the problem is directly linked to the illegality of these substances. The reason huge cartels are so powerful is BECAUSE drugs are illegal. You take that out of the equation, you take away their power source. Wake up people.

Also, I agree that drunk driving is a huge problem (I've never heard of anyone wrecking a car from pot or coke), but you can't make drinking illegal because some people don't follow the law. Should we make cars illegal to? And the whole notion about comparing personal consumption of mind altering substances to rape is just bizarre. This person and all people like him/her are outsiders. They are outside the mainstream (because pot, cocaine, and alcohol are mainstream drugs ) and they are oblivious to the real reason this country needed to be created in the first place. The last three American presidents used alcohol at some point and all admitted to smoking pot---and Bush 2 admitted to snorting cocaine---Presidents!!! Again, this person has a "bury your head in the sand" solution to everything. It's laughable to me that the people who know the least about this stuff are the one's who try the hardest to tell me what I can and can't do. Give me break. These people live in fear of everything--gays, trans-genders, atheists, rock music, erotic dancing, sex workers, nudists, artists, other cultures, other religions, false devils, false gods, and the list goes on and on. They want to make everyone afraid of the same things they are afraid of. You're not going to solve the problems related to these issues (and there are many) by criminalizing normal human behavior. It's ridiculous.

The dirty little secret is that the huge "legal" drug lobby in America simply does not want competition and they have congress by the balls. It's an enormously wealthy and vast empire--they are the real drug pushers. Tune in any evening to your news channel and you will have someone telling you to run to your doctor for a drug to alleviate some condition that you didn't even know you had. For shame America. Since when does the will of responsible, consenting citizens take back seat to the wishes of mindless profiteers. And these feeble minded religious zealots are right in their pocket. I've had with these idiots--go form your own country or share this one responsibly.
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27-03-2010, 03:48 PM (This post was last modified: 27-03-2010 03:52 PM by ashley.hunt60.)
RE: Legalizing drugs?
Yeah, that website doesn't hold the brightest minds, but when I want opposing views, I have them. That person did indeed completely miss the point that making something illegal doesn't mean everyone stops and it ceases to exist.

And the religious zealots did form their own country. It's called Saudi Arabia.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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27-03-2010, 03:58 PM
 
RE: Legalizing drugs?
(27-03-2010 03:48 PM)ashley.hunt60 Wrote:  Yeah, that website doesn't hold the brightest minds, but when I want opposing views, I have them. That person did indeed completely miss the point that making something illegal doesn't mean everyone stops and it ceases to exist.

And the religious zealots did form their own country. It's called Saudi Arabia.
Thank you--good point!
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27-03-2010, 06:50 PM
RE: Legalizing drugs?
I'm all for legalization, but with restrictions. Similar to alcohol, you know. Age restriction, don't operate machinery while on the stuff, leave PCP out of it, stuff like that. Grassharrper pretty much said everything I wanted to to, and I've never been on the stuff, either. Never interested me; I just don't see the point in keeping people from using it in the privacy of their own homes.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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