Let's Spar
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09-01-2014, 06:17 PM
Let's Spar
Seeing how atheism/unbelief is not the standard yet, I thought it would be nice to have a place to see the typical arguments/defenses that most non-believers will encounter during the next few decades lol. There may be one on this message board but I haven't seen it yet. I do know there is one about real life arguments with theists, but I am talking about practice, lol (cue Allen Iverson). It would work by someone making a statement that usually occurs during debates and then other people making remarks that would either support or disagree with that point. The statements can be things that are usually heard or they can be new points that have not typically been heard on the subject. I think this could help many atheists, even the ones who have just declared their atheism and will undoubtedly encounter arguments.

I would like to start it off by saying....

God did not create sin...(anybody who has a different argument should feel free to throw that in too)Smile

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09-01-2014, 06:20 PM
RE: Let's Spar
(09-01-2014 06:17 PM)Cobalt Wrote:  I would like to start it off by saying....

God did not create sin...(anybody who has a different argument should feel free to throw that in too)Smile

Example answer would be that if god did not create everything, including sin, then how can he be god?

I hope yall get the idea now.

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09-01-2014, 06:26 PM
RE: Let's Spar
But sin is what separates us from god. The wages of sin is death, which is eternal separation from god. God created all that is good, including free will. Free will contains risk that we might reject god and his goodness, thus falling away from the goodness he has created. He didn't create sin, he created us. We choose to turn away from and spoil his perfect creation.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-01-2014, 06:27 PM
RE: Let's Spar
Alright.
I'll throw this in for my 2;

Christians who argue against evolution, should explain how the generally accepted culminating effect of their belief, (usually declared as secondary to being with God), is the promise of an improved incorruptible body and perfected, renewed mind. Because in the broadest sense, what they argue against, is what they are hoping for.

That is to say, evolution.

(I understand that it's not quite what the OP was getting at, but eh.)

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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09-01-2014, 06:31 PM
RE: Let's Spar
(09-01-2014 06:26 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  .... God created all that is good, including free will. Free will contains risk that we might reject god and his goodness, thus falling away from the goodness he has created. He didn't create sin, he created us. We choose to turn away from and spoil his perfect creation.
Free will imposed without the consent of the receiver is self refuting and cannot stand.

"If you're going my way, I'll go with you."- Jim Croce
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09-01-2014, 06:42 PM
RE: Let's Spar
(09-01-2014 06:31 PM)Kestrel Wrote:  
(09-01-2014 06:26 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  .... God created all that is good, including free will. Free will contains risk that we might reject god and his goodness, thus falling away from the goodness he has created. He didn't create sin, he created us. We choose to turn away from and spoil his perfect creation.
Free will imposed without the consent of the receiver is self refuting and cannot stand.

Damn. Good answer, I hadn't heard that one. Consider

There's that and the evidence that free will is illusory, but I like it.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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09-01-2014, 06:48 PM
RE: Let's Spar
Thanks folks, that's what I was talking about, just let it all hang out. We have all heard some wild stuff, I am just suggesting to place it here and see what kind of responses we get. I do appreciate anyone that participates. It won't be personal, it should just all just be in fun to see what we have seen.

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09-01-2014, 07:03 PM
RE: Let's Spar
It's true cos it says so in the bible.

The most ridiculous thing I've heard concerns the flood. A Christian said to me "I've seen a Rainbow, and the bible says that a rainbow is gods promise that he will never flood the earth again. So therefore that proves the flood happened"

I was just lost for words at the stupidity of that answer.

But it's just another spin on "It's true cos it says so in the bible!"

How can we get christians to understand that the bible is not evidence for a claim? The bible IS the claim!
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09-01-2014, 07:05 PM
RE: Let's Spar
(09-01-2014 06:26 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  But sin is what separates us from god. The wages of sin is death, which is eternal separation from god. God created all that is good, including free will. Free will contains risk that we might reject god and his goodness, thus falling away from the goodness he has created. He didn't create sin, he created us. We choose to turn away from and spoil his perfect creation.

I just wonder that if god did not create sin then who did? If god did not create everything how is he still god?

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09-01-2014, 07:10 PM
RE: Let's Spar
(09-01-2014 07:03 PM)TheStraightener Wrote:  It's true cos it says so in the bible.

The most ridiculous thing I've heard concerns the flood. A Christian said to me "I've seen a Rainbow, and the bible says that a rainbow is gods promise that he will never flood the earth again. So therefore that proves the flood happened"

I was just lost for words at the stupidity of that answer.

But it's just another spin on "It's true cos it says so in the bible!"

How can we get christians to understand that the bible is not evidence for a claim? The bible IS the claim!
thanks for joining in, lol, if you want to hear the arguments, just state what christians say and see what happens. I am not trying to make us fight each other I am just trying to help us all see the stuff that is out there and hopefully discover the more reasonable responses that have been employed. We are outnumbered and outgunned and I just thought that we can all use as much help as we can get.

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