Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
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28-04-2014, 11:02 AM
Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 10:09 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  We don't yet know each other, I hope you're well! Smile
I have been reading through the thread and actually agree to an extent with some of what you may be trying to say. I will address the points how I have understood them and offer my view. If I am misunderstanding you, please clarify for me.
You are misunderstanding, and it is probably because you are offended by the proposition that you, and every other atheist, have held a dogma of inaccurate doctrines/definitions, because the semantics has never been sorted.

(28-04-2014 10:09 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  1. You are claiming that atheism is a political position due to the fact that it opposes theism directly and theism is accepted as a political position? ... Therefore, to directly oppose one political position automatically creates the opposite new position?
No. I am claiming that atheism is a political doctrine, because it is not possible to be an ontological doctrine that theism is. I made a very good description of it here;
(28-04-2014 07:22 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  As atheists well know, religion was the all-encompassing social organization, including political authority. What people did/do not understand, like a lot of things, like medicine, gravity, and global geography; one of the things was that they did not understand that atheism is a political doctrine, and the problem of not correctly defining it as such has been passed on to our generation, because nobody has taken the time to sort it all out. It has to do with understanding ontology - the study of existence. Theism is an ontological ordering of reality beginning with the assumption that there is a god that ordered the cosmos. And we recognize that they used faulty information, but it was necessary because most people are not all that bright and need to be told what to do and how to do it and so forth. Humanism is the ontological ordering of reality that assumes that human beings define reality and all that exists. And we deploy science/metaphysics to do that. It does not make sense to assume an ontological ordering of reality based on the opposition of another ontological ordering - theism-atheism. And that is what you are doing when you describe atheism as the lack of belief in god - the antithesis of theism. You want to make a difference in this world you better get this straight before the Christians define it correctly for you.

(28-04-2014 10:09 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  If I understand you correctly, I agree with the core of your argument. Where I think you and I differ is on the definitions. Atheism is just a lack belief in God/Gods, no more, no less.
That is the core of the argument - I disagree with that most common definition and I presented a very good argument. That definition is a misnomer - mistakes were made in the past, because of the lack of information and of course, the Church defined things like "atheism."

(28-04-2014 10:09 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  The position opposed to religion politically in my view, is anti-theism. As a human being, I define myself as more than one thing. I am an atheist who has an anti-theist political agenda.
Well, that's not wrong - it's just kind of redundant, because you want to play a semantic diversion.

(28-04-2014 10:09 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  2. You seem to hold the view that arguing about the existence of God is a small thing in the grand scheme of things and that anti-theism (or atheism, I don't see the point in debating semantics) is not organised politically? Agreed, but it is definitely taking hold. I don't think debating God's existence is a waste of time though, I'm English and have seen the benefits of the process over here. America is arguably the most powerful nation on the planet and lack of belief needs to become as culturally normal as belief so that any anti-theistic movement has a chance.
What are the benefits of debating the existence of god???

(28-04-2014 10:09 AM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  3. You seem to be side swiping people because they're on here arguing with theists instead of out changing the world. With the greatest respect mate, this is a social forum, with different sections, for different conversations. If you want to get in to it politically, start a thread in the relevant section. Also, you don't know what people do or don't do away from here! If that's not enough for you, join some politics forums too. I didn't want to let that slide because I hope you see the irony in taking the position of, you atheists just type shit in forums about religion and don't do anything, when in actual fact, to inform us of our inactivity or political failings, you have achieved this by logging in to a forum and typing shit at us! Big Grin This is fruitless on both sides. I am not trying to be inflammatory, merely drawing attention to it so we can all see how it gets people's backs up unnecessarily. All the best Smile
I'm right, and you are wrong. I participate at the PoliticalForums, my ID is CyberCynic. There are more important things atheists could be doing instead of arguing about the existence of god, and I am years ahead of all of you, and I have invited you all to participate in the advancement of such pressing things such as, a "scientific" knowledge classification system, and a "scientific" political charter system.

Your claim to fame will be for having performed the unreasonable inquisition much akin to the infamous inquisition of Galileo.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 11:03 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 09:09 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  My reputation precedes me, how may I be of service?
I need to know the definitions of the following words that atheists agree are correct:
  1. atheism
  2. humanism
  3. secularism
  4. religion
  5. belief
  6. worship

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 11:06 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
Equivocating prick.

A-sexual = not sexual
A-political = not political
A-moral = not moral
A-theist = not theist

QED.


(28-04-2014 11:03 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 09:09 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  My reputation precedes me, how may I be of service?
I need to know the definitions of the following words that atheists agree are correct:
  1. atheism
  2. humanism
  3. secularism
  4. religion
  5. belief
  6. worship

You claim to know so much about these, and now you admit that don't even have a clear idea of what they mean.

No fucking surprise here.


Go the fuck away.

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28-04-2014, 11:08 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
1) atheism, the disbelief in god
2) humanism, a belief in the importance of human beings and their power to act towards the betterment of humanity
3) secularism, the value of separating church and state
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28-04-2014, 11:09 AM (This post was last modified: 28-04-2014 11:13 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 10:14 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(27-04-2014 07:24 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  I have to wait until tomorrow to start the debate. We should try to get some kind of rules if we want to make any difference, which is basically the premise of my argument - atheists cannot make a difference because they do not have any rules of organization, and more specifically in this situation, rules for determining valid reasoning.

Basically, my argument will begin with the claim that atheists use the erroneous definitions of atheism, humanism, secularism, and religion; and it hinders their reasoning.

Project much, asshole?

Um just because YOU hinder your own reasoning and use erroneous, ignorant and equivocal definitions of these things doesn't mean everyone else does.

I have it straight - you and everyone else, except Sam Harris, have it wrong.

You just cannot handle the possibility that atheists have been perpetuating misnomers, because it was convenient for the Church to define abstract things and the Christian editors of the dictionaries were not inclined to figure it out - didn't think it mattered. Now as the margin of human error narrows, the error of the semantics becomes more significant; and a correction needs to be made. Don't let the Christians beat you to it. And keep ion mind there is at least one Christian monitoring this discussion.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
Quote:I have it straight - you and everyone else, except Sam Harris, have it wrong.

Be very careful sir. Over weaning arrogance is not attractive.
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28-04-2014, 11:25 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 11:09 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 10:14 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  Project much, asshole?

Um just because YOU hinder your own reasoning and use erroneous, ignorant and equivocal definitions of these things doesn't mean everyone else does.

I have it straight - you and everyone else, except Sam Harris, have it wrong.

So the whole fucking world besides you has it wrong. Hobo



Quote:You just cannot handle the possibility...

You don't have a fucking clue what I can and cannot handle, asswipe. You are simply wallowing in your own delusional wishful thinking.



Quote: that atheists have been perpetuating misnomers, because it was convenient for the Church to define abstract things and the Christian editors of the dictionaries were not inclined to figure it out - didn't think it mattered.

Parochial tunnel visoin much, moron? Atheism isn't just about xtianity. Not by a LONG fucking shot.



Quote: Now as the margin of human error narrows, the error of the semantics becomes more significant; and a correction needs to be made. Don't let the Christians beat you to it.


There was atheism long before there was xtianity. As long as one person has doubted the wild claims others have made of deities, there has been atheism.

Quote: And keep ion mind there is at least one Christian monitoring this discussion.

And you are claiming this is somehow relevant how?

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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28-04-2014, 11:31 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 11:25 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  And you are claiming this is somehow relevant how?
You do not want the Christians to straighten this shit out for you - fuck nut. You want to be able to claim that you recognized the problems and that you put forth your best efforts to implement the corrections in society.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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28-04-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 11:03 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 09:09 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  My reputation precedes me, how may I be of service?
I need to know the definitions of the following words that atheists agree are correct:
  1. atheism
  2. humanism
  3. secularism
  4. religion
  5. belief
  6. worship

Sure no problem. Please provide the fourm with the definiton of god that all thiest agree on and we can proceed.
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28-04-2014, 11:34 AM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 11:11 AM)natachan Wrote:  
Quote:I have it straight - you and everyone else, except Sam Harris, have it wrong.
Be very careful sir. Over weaning arrogance is not attractive.
Yeah, what are you going to do - prove me wrong???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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