Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
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01-05-2014, 02:48 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 12:53 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 05:18 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defini...sh/atheism
This is the Oxford dictionary definition of atheism.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
The wiki definition is pretty good, it explains how broad the term is and that it can but not necessarily be from a social, philosophical or political view. Whilst these are not essential, people who define themselves as atheist hold in common a rejection of the supernatural and the burden of proof.
I agree, however that is humanism - not atheism.

(28-04-2014 05:18 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  My atheism is not a starting point for my political stance.
Your humanism is not the starting point of your political stance. Atheism is the starting point of your political stance, because it describes your opposition to theist doctrine.

(28-04-2014 05:18 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  Just as my not playing basketball or the fact that I don't have green eyes. It is not in direct opposition to only the ontological argument, that is only one theist argument, it is the rejection of all theism.
those are some unfinished arguments - try harder in the future.

(28-04-2014 05:18 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  If I had theism as part of my life then yes, this would be a starting point for my politics but that doesn't mean it follows that no theism is a religious/theistic/politics stance.
Wow - you are willing to recognize that reciprocal of the argument that I am making, but just cannot make the connection, because for the longest time you have known the definition of atheism it has not been associated with politics, because you associate it only with the opposition to the existence of god; which you know is only based on doctrine written by devious white men controlling the masses of stupid people who did not know what top do with their lives.

(28-04-2014 05:18 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  That is like saying because I am European everything I do and think is anti rest of the world. Or because I am not an American, I am automatically anti American. This is essentially your claim, that we are instantly politically opposed to theism by default of the atheist position.
You are not anti-American because you designate yourself, "European," and not, "anti-American." You would not be anti-theism if you were to recognize that humanism is the correction; as it is, you designate yourself to be an atheist; which means you are anti-theist!

(28-04-2014 05:18 PM)Monster_Riffs Wrote:  My definition, which I have provided supporting links for which line up with my understanding show very clearly that I am correct and considerably cleverer than you. (I have stopped being polite now because you didn't even start to be, when I asked you nicely).
Oh you poor thing, you.

Once again. No supportive information for your baseless assertions. Not a single point of my argument countered, merely a repetition of your baseless unsupported assertions ... round and round and round and round and ... You have nothing. No argument, no counter argument, no understanding of any of the terms you throw about. You're a total waste of time.

I'll just play the 'can I help you' lick!!!
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01-05-2014, 02:58 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
You guys realize TrainWreck is laughing at all of you for playing along, right?
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01-05-2014, 02:59 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 01:43 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Humanism is the proper antithesis to theism...

In other words; in a couple of hundred years from now, when theism is eradicated, because of the overwhelming exercise of a scientific political charter, it will be absurd to refer to ourselves as "atheists," however, "humanists," will be acceptable.

I might actually agree with the basic premise of this notion. After all... when one stops believing in Santa, one does not refer to one's self as an aSantaist ... rather, an adult. Drinking Beverage

As defined in my interwebz dictionary widget ...

humanism
noun
an outlook or system of thought attaching prime importance to human rather than divine or supernatural matters. Humanist beliefs stress the potential value and goodness of human beings, emphasize common human needs, and seek solely rational ways of solving human problems.
• (often Humanism) a Renaissance cultural movement that turned away from medieval scholasticism and revived interest in ancient Greek and Roman thought.
• (among some contemporary writers) a system of thought criticized as being centered on the notion of the rational, autonomous self and ignoring the unintegrated and conditioned nature of the individual.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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01-05-2014, 03:07 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
That reads more like the description for humanitarianism than humanism.

Humanism should be something along the lines that humans define reality. Where as, theists believe god creates and defines reality.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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01-05-2014, 03:15 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 02:58 PM)wazzel Wrote:  You guys realize TrainWreck is laughing at all of you for playing along, right?

Exactly! Why give this putz the time of day when he has no substance in any point he attempts to make, and just spends his energy in word games and insults.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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01-05-2014, 03:18 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 12:29 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  ... you all have failed to counter the argument with anything other than the assumption that the editors of the dictionaries are the authority for defining words, although, they are subject to perpetuating misnomers;

For -- crying -- out -- loud. What part of this didn't you understand:

(28-04-2014 12:32 PM)John Wrote:  If the answers provided by [the compilers of dictionaries] are not satisfactory, anybody is free to introduce their own definitions at the risk of being misunderstood

Dictionaries don't have authority over the meaning of words per se, they have authority over the meaning of words because the compilers put the most effort in trying to discern how the words are being used by others, and because they have a long track record of providing answers that most people agree with, which in turn lends credence to their reliability and usefulness as an arbiter at present. I don't know how to stress this enough:

You are free to disagree with any definition provided by any dictionary, and you are free to introduce your own definitions.

That does not mean that anybody else has to give a rat's ass over your definitions.

(27-04-2014 12:22 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Atheism is the political doctrine determined to eliminate the legislation of law based on theist doctrines.

You are free to call atheism whatever you like. By calling it ^this you will only stir confusion and most likely be misunderstood in whatever point you might wish to make.

(27-04-2014 12:22 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Humanism is the proper ontological doctrine "opposite' of theism.

Given your definition of 'atheism' I dare not venture in guessing your definitions of 'humanism', 'theism' nor 'ontological doctrine' and the above statement is left just a big fat pile of question marks with a deep *sigh* attached to it. If this is your "thesis", however, then it is up to you to explain and expand on what the heck that is supposed to mean. And preferably in a manner that is logical, coherent, and resorts ultimately to definitions that we all agree on. If this is beyond your capability then we're all just wasting time here.

Τί ἐστιν ἀλήθεια?
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01-05-2014, 03:51 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(28-04-2014 04:43 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  Let's not

Agreed...

[Image: 83262042.jpg]

Sorry! Had to Tongue

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01-05-2014, 04:04 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 03:07 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  That reads more like the description for humanitarianism than humanism.

Humanism should be something along the lines that humans define reality. Where as, theists believe god creates and defines reality.

Well, I'm not the guy who writes that shit... that's what came up... and in several different dictionaries.

Google it yourself, man. Drinking Beverage I'm busy.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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01-05-2014, 04:20 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 03:18 PM)John Wrote:  You are free to disagree with any definition provided by any dictionary, and you are free to introduce your own definitions.
That is what I am doing.

(01-05-2014 03:18 PM)John Wrote:  That does not mean that anybody else has to give a rat's ass over your definitions.
I agree - why all the fuss??? just ignore this discussion, just like all the other discussions you guys ignore.

I bet you can't figure out why you guys cannot ignore it.
It is because you believe that you understand the meaning without fault, and believe that you are of firm authority to defend your belief.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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01-05-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(01-05-2014 03:18 PM)John Wrote:  Given your definition of 'atheism' I dare not venture in guessing your definitions of 'humanism', 'theism' nor 'ontological doctrine' and the above statement is left just a big fat pile of question marks with a deep *sigh* attached to it. If this is your "thesis", however, then it is up to you to explain and expand on what the heck that is supposed to mean. And preferably in a manner that is logical, coherent, and resorts ultimately to definitions that we all agree on. If this is beyond your capability then we're all just wasting time here.
I do not want you to guess - I want you to tell me what the universal accepted definition are, and I will explain to you why they are wrong. I'm way, way, way ahead of you - years ahead of you.

(28-04-2014 11:03 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(28-04-2014 09:09 AM)Im_Ryan Wrote:  My reputation precedes me, how may I be of service?
I need to know the definitions of the following words that atheists agree are correct:
  1. atheism
  2. humanism
  3. secularism
  4. religion
  5. belief
  6. worship

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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