Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
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02-05-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 11:57 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Help me to better understand your position. What do you hope to get out of a semantic argument?
Standardization of the definition so we can grasp and exercise better reason.

(02-05-2014 11:57 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  If we agree there are different factions of atheism, then what?
Then those groups can organize and advance their agenda for better community, rather than the perpetuation of disagreement in the secular organization of atheism.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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02-05-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 12:38 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 11:57 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Help me to better understand your position. What do you hope to get out of a semantic argument?
Standardization of the definition so we can grasp and exercise better reason.

(02-05-2014 11:57 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  If we agree there are different factions of atheism, then what?
Then those groups can organize and advance their agenda for better community, rather than the perpetuation of disagreement in the secular organization of atheism.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-05-2014, 12:39 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 11:42 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  But the problem is that is in contention with the non-belief definition, because why would people designate themselves in respect to something that the do not know exists???

Because other dimwits adhere to said BS, and those who don't, wan't to explicitly distance themselves from said adherents by choosing a label.

(02-05-2014 11:42 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Atheism only makes sense when it is used to combat theism, and when theism is defeated, "atheism," will be discarded; and the factions will define themselves. But I say lets start defining our factions now, and get ahead of the game.

Unfortunately you don't get to divide the spoils of war before the war has come to an end. But by all means, feel free to take positions ahead of time.

(02-05-2014 11:42 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  You guys like talk your stupid shit about how atheism is not a political doctrine, because every atheist is different. Well, why the fuck can't you grant me the privilege of being different - why do I have to see things your way? Why the fuck do you believe it is impossible to define the factions of atheism - why do you think it is infinite? It is because you are stupid and you want the Christians to do it for you.

I've already granted you and everyone else that very privilege, and I've also stated that, as far as I'm concerned, the only problem you'll face is to be misunderstood since others are not compelled to adopt your out-of-the-ordinary definitions as useful before you're able to convince them of their usefulness. But again, feel free to define atheism and its 'factions' like it pleases you best.

(02-05-2014 11:42 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  If you had the ability to reason, you wouldn't be arguing with me with the dictionary definitions as your weapons - you would be asking me, " what is the next step in my grand pooh-pa plan if this contingent of the atheist community were to recognize that my definitions were the better descriptors?"

What the fuck do you think this was:

(02-05-2014 07:47 AM)John Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 07:35 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to civil law based on theist doctrine
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality

Great. Now what?

I'm waiting, get to it. And as for the rest:

(02-05-2014 11:42 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  But you cannot get there, because you have a dogma that guides your agenda to predominately fight the arguments about gods. Your dogma only allows you to see the solution to the world's problems is only possible by the eradication of theism by arguing them to submission - you do not have the ability to see the proactive path.

...speak for yourself.

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02-05-2014, 12:40 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
Until you change the dictionary definition, that's never going to happen.

Your best bet is coining a new phrase like everyone else, instead of making up alternate definitions to already defined words.

Example: "Political Atheism"

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
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02-05-2014, 12:50 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 12:38 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 11:57 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Help me to better understand your position. What do you hope to get out of a semantic argument?
Standardization of the definition so we can grasp and exercise better reason.

Better reasoning to what end exactly? Generally when people feel the need to narrow and redefine defintions, they do so to prove some other point.

Furthermore, which definition do you think is better and why?

(02-05-2014 11:57 AM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  If we agree there are different factions of atheism, then what?
Then those groups can organize and advance their agenda for better community, rather than the perpetuation of disagreement in the secular organization of atheism.
[/quote]

I would appreciate you elaborating a great deal on this point. What would a better community be, and how would a better semantic definition bring that about?
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02-05-2014, 12:59 PM (This post was last modified: 02-05-2014 01:09 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 12:39 PM)John Wrote:  What the fuck do you think this was:

Great. Now what?
Sorry, I did not interpret it as you meant it. I was expecting something along the lines of: So we were to accept it - what happens next???

To that I would answer that we have to campaign the agenda throughout humanism, and commence deliberations (scientific review) of the entirety of human knowledge to deliver to the world as our answer to the inconsistencies of the theists "holy" documents.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-05-2014, 01:06 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 12:50 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Better reasoning to what end exactly? Generally when people feel the need to narrow and redefine definitions, they do so to prove some other point.
And that is what we are trying to eliminate by making sure the definitions are standardized and systematized. At this point definitions are not systematized by categories of concepts or subjects.

(02-05-2014 12:50 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Furthermore, which definition do you think is better and why?
It all has to be reviewed - all of it. Some parts are more difficult than others, but if they can put all the words in a dictionary - that means we can go through it.

Tell President Obama, because this is going to create 50,000,000 jobs over the next ten years.

(02-05-2014 12:50 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I would appreciate you elaborating a great deal on this point. What would a better community be, and how would a better semantic definition bring that about?
Better community would be an autonomous community of atheists striving to cooperate to make a better community and greater society by deliberating reason to its greatest extent to understand reality and how to advance society toward peace and tranquility.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-05-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 01:06 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(02-05-2014 12:50 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Better reasoning to what end exactly? Generally when people feel the need to narrow and redefine definitions, they do so to prove some other point.
And that is what we are trying to eliminate by making sure the definitions are standardized and systematized. At this point definitions are not systematized by categories of concepts or subjects.

I don't really see the definition of atheist to be wanting. We don't believe in god, I mean that is not what the root words mean, but that is the functional definition. We have political labels and their definitions in our lexicon. Why is "republican" not an adequate political descriptor for a conservative atheist?

Quote:
(02-05-2014 12:50 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Furthermore, which definition do you think is better and why?
It all has to be reviewed - all of it. Some parts are more difficult than others, but if they can put all the words in a dictionary - that means we can go through it.

So define the terms for us. I can't get there yet, but if you have some definitions and you demonstrate them to be better, I can start to come to be persuaded to your line of reasoning.

Quote:Tell President Obama, because this is going to create 50,000,000 jobs over the next ten years.

Wait, what? You completely lost me here.

Kind of a math problem too. I don't think there are fifty million adults that are unemployed in the US, even if you lump in every house wife, disabled person, and even all children over the age of ten.

Quote:
(02-05-2014 12:50 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I would appreciate you elaborating a great deal on this point. What would a better community be, and how would a better semantic definition bring that about?
Better community would be an autonomous community of atheists striving to cooperate to make a better community and greater society by deliberating reason to its greatest extent to understand reality and how to advance society toward peace and tranquility.
[/quote]

Peace and tranquility are good things sure. Help me get there though. What steps happen in which order and why?
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02-05-2014, 01:32 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 12:59 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  To that I would answer that we have to campaign the agenda throughout humanism, and commence deliberations (scientific review) of the entirety of human knowledge to deliver to the world as our answer to the inconsistencies of the theists "holy" documents.

Well that was anticlimactic.

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02-05-2014, 03:04 PM
RE: Let's define atheism, and other misnomers
(02-05-2014 01:27 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Why is "republican" not an adequate political descriptor for a conservative atheist?
Because the secular political organizations are beholden to appease Christians, and not beholden to better reasoning.

(02-05-2014 01:27 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  So define the terms for us. I can't get there yet, but if you have some definitions and you demonstrate them to be better, I can start to come to be persuaded to your line of reasoning.
http://secularlibrary.freeforums.net/

http://www.secularlibrary.info/

(02-05-2014 01:27 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  Peace and tranquility are good things sure. Help me get there though. What steps happen in which order and why?
We need to generate a scientific political charter system.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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