Let's make a deal ...
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23-07-2015, 04:54 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(23-07-2015 12:05 AM)morondog Wrote:  You say that we should all shut up and not talk to each other. I and Microterf say the opposite. We *have* facts on our side, sure it may be annoying to listen to the incessant dissonance of the religious but ultimately communication will first result in acceptance of atheism and then probably (if Europe is any guide) the near-total abandonment of religion.

I did not 'say that we should shut up and not talk to each other', I implied religion should stop with it's anti-science agenda else run the risk of being hypocritical. I clarified that in a reply earlier in the thread, you must have missed it. Have a look.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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23-07-2015, 05:06 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(23-07-2015 06:19 AM)microterf Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 04:26 PM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  I'd like to reply but I'm not actually sure what you're saying. Who are you referring to when you say 'our' and 'theirs'? What 'solution' are you referring to?

Who is arguing with pastors? Am I in the right thread...?

"Our solution" is referring to atheists, scientists, etc. which you were referring to with progress. "Their solution" is what you were referring to as them living by what they believe. Just show that you can love others and treat them with respect, and you can learn and understand science without cognitive dissonance if you don't have a 2,000 year old book that you believe has all of the answers.

As far as arguing with pastors, I meant to defend your position, and educate everyone you can when the subject comes up. If they are pushing a position of religious dogma, then don't feel apologetically correct them, and debate them if you have to.

morondog pointed out what we are trying to say very well, but I will add one thing to it. The religious love to breed like crazy! So if you just separated everybody, they would outgrow us and we would lose any ground that we have gained over the last 20 years.

Education is the key. Another fun fact is that people who become the best activists aren't the people who buy never bought into the bullshit, it's the people who really believed everything but now understand they were wrong. They have lived through the danger of religion.

I think you and morondog missed my point. I was implying that the anti-science agenda adopted by certain Christians is hypocritical.

That's all.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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24-07-2015, 12:06 AM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
Archi, you proposed that we should make a deal with theists that if they shut up about their shit, we should shut up about ours. It seemed pretty clear to me...

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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24-07-2015, 07:18 AM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
I believe in secular imperialism. Avoiding confrontation isn't my forté Tongue

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24-07-2015, 04:57 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(24-07-2015 12:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  Archi, you proposed that we should make a deal with theists that if they shut up about their shit, we should shut up about ours. It seemed pretty clear to me...

The pay-off line is fairly explicit and to the point I'm making

"... you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you?"

I can't be any clearer than that whilst sending in the tropes.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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24-07-2015, 05:03 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(24-07-2015 07:18 AM)yakherder Wrote:  I believe in secular imperialism. Avoiding confrontation isn't my forté Tongue

Nicely avoided.



,

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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24-07-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
Tongue
(24-07-2015 04:57 PM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  
(24-07-2015 12:06 AM)morondog Wrote:  Archi, you proposed that we should make a deal with theists that if they shut up about their shit, we should shut up about ours. It seemed pretty clear to me...

The pay-off line is fairly explicit and to the point I'm making

"... you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you?"

I can't be any clearer than that whilst sending in the tropes.

Archi

The strong cultural value that this ideas has drugged up lately is really bizarre. It's not that I disagree with it but it seems so strange there is so much aggression and mocking towards the appearance of someone being a hypocrite.

I've seen people talking about studies of this and how suddenly in this era authenticity has become a hot-bed issue of a desired trait but how it really came to be so prominent is still a mystery to me. There is far greater ills than being seen as a hypocrite or not believing in the properties of how something works yet embracing it.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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27-07-2015, 02:34 PM (This post was last modified: 27-07-2015 02:56 PM by ArchibaldFunkdust.)
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(24-07-2015 09:48 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Tongue
(24-07-2015 04:57 PM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  The pay-off line is fairly explicit and to the point I'm making

"... you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you?"

I can't be any clearer than that whilst sending in the tropes.

Archi

The strong cultural value that this ideas has drugged up lately is really bizarre. It's not that I disagree with it but it seems so strange there is so much aggression and mocking towards the appearance of someone being a hypocrite.

I've seen people talking about studies of this and how suddenly in this era authenticity has become a hot-bed issue of a desired trait but how it really came to be so prominent is still a mystery to me. There is far greater ills than being seen as a hypocrite or not believing in the properties of how something works yet embracing it.


Personally I think it's to do with the fact more and more people are communicating through the internet in pre determined 'short-formats' and so we find ourselves compelled to cram more information into increasingly shorter communiques and subsequently have lost some of the more leisurely crafted literacy skills like irony. Case in point, this forum might not be called the Thinking Atheist as it implies there are non-thinking atheists (and others), but we all find it acceptable because we all assume it is done with a touch of humour.

We are such a ridiculous species and the fact we are losing our sense of humour about ourselves is truly tragic.
Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

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27-07-2015, 07:02 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  All you wonderful believers in gods and the like. I have no problem with you all believing in whatever it is you want to believe in, as long as it doesn't infringe on the human rights of anyone else. So, here's my deal.
You keep religion to yourself, no going after vulnerable or young people or even fit and healthy people - let people find their way to you. Keep your systems of belief to yourself.
I have right to go after vulnerable or young people or even fit and healthy people and tell them what I believe. So do not take away from me this right. This is America not Soviet Union. Are you communist? Are you socialist? I think so. At least you think like one.
If they do not want to hear me I will leave them alone.
Do all liberals/progressives/communists/socialists think they can tell others what to do? I hope not.
Liberals/progressives/communists/socialists are not gods. So, no deal.
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  And in return us atheists and 'sciency' types will keep our atheist and our 'sciency' weirdness like evolution, big bangs, medicine, transport, agriculture, commerce, computers, lighting, air conditioning, tractors, trailers, harvesters, trucks, trains, blenders, TV's, DVD's, Bluray's, genetic cures, high yield crops, bathrooms, showers, kettles, toasters, ovens, microwaves, cars, UV's, printers, power tools, rockets, robots, rotisseries, coffee machines, wood chippers, chain saws, clippers, callipers and the millions of other devices that rely on modern 'sciency' stuff - yep those evil little computer chips that are a fundamental part of everyday technology that brought you all these wonderful enhancements are built using knowledge we gained from that whacky quantum theory stuff and the nevermentionedbyreligiouspeoplebecausetheydon'tunderstandit Uncertainty principle, to ourselves.
Archi, are you trying to say that all those things were created by atheists?
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  Or you can sit there picking your pox scabs praying for a cure while we use science - you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you?
are you sure you are not an atheist-communist?

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27-07-2015, 07:15 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(22-07-2015 07:02 AM)microterf Wrote:  morondog is correct. Our solution is better than theirs, and it will win out in the end. That is the best way of doing it. SHOW that your solution is better and people will eventually go to it. Why do you think that "None" is the fast growing religious affiliation in American right now?

Do not feel bad about arguing with pastors etc who push this garbage, educate yourself to the best of your ability and then you can help educate others, but always be reasonable. As they decline in numbers, you're going to see a stronger push from them, as you do with any group before they die out. It will happen, give it time.
Even if your solutions are better it doesn't mean they are evidence to me that there is no God.
Atheists built Soviet Union. They failed. Atheists can not give me what God gives to me. They can not give me peace, comfort, strength and other blessings.
But I do appreciate their other solutions.
Lesson of history(USSR): if atheists get power they have to become tyrants. Evil_monster

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