Let's make a deal ...
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28-07-2015, 12:20 AM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
Truth isn't nice always. I'll take a hard truth over a comforting lie any day. Clearly you feel differently.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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28-07-2015, 02:12 AM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(27-07-2015 07:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(22-07-2015 07:02 AM)microterf Wrote:  morondog is correct. Our solution is better than theirs, and it will win out in the end. That is the best way of doing it. SHOW that your solution is better and people will eventually go to it. Why do you think that "None" is the fast growing religious affiliation in American right now?

Do not feel bad about arguing with pastors etc who push this garbage, educate yourself to the best of your ability and then you can help educate others, but always be reasonable. As they decline in numbers, you're going to see a stronger push from them, as you do with any group before they die out. It will happen, give it time.
Even if your solutions are better it doesn't mean they are evidence to me that there is no God.
Atheists built Soviet Union. They failed. Atheists can not give me what God gives to me. They can not give me peace, comfort, strength and other blessings.
But I do appreciate their other solutions.
Lesson of history(USSR): if atheists get power they have to become tyrants. Evil_monster

It doesn't matter if there is a God or not, what matters is if the claims that are made by a religion are true. If they are not true, then whether there is a god or not, you're still wrong. Furthermore, if a god exists, and there is a judgement day, he probably won't be to happy that you worshiped a god on insufficient evidence. God doesn't give you anything, the comfort you get is because you THINK there is a god.

Science on the other hand is in the business of invalidating claims. Invalidating is how you find out if something is true. We might both have hypothesis (the same or different) but if we always look as correlation equaling causation, then we won't know if we're right or wrong. We really have to put it to the test to eliminate other variables to see if the correlation we see is the causation.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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28-07-2015, 12:37 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(28-07-2015 02:12 AM)microterf Wrote:  
(27-07-2015 07:15 PM)Alla Wrote:  Even if your solutions are better it doesn't mean they are evidence to me that there is no God.
Atheists built Soviet Union. They failed. Atheists can not give me what God gives to me. They can not give me peace, comfort, strength and other blessings.
But I do appreciate their other solutions.
Lesson of history(USSR): if atheists get power they have to become tyrants. Evil_monster
It doesn't matter if there is a God or not, what matters is if the claims that are made by a religion are true.
Religion invites people to believe its claims. Religion can do this as long as it doesn't force you or me to accept its claims.
(28-07-2015 02:12 AM)microterf Wrote:  God doesn't give you anything, the comfort you get is because you THINK there is a god.
I know that there is God by the power of the Holy Ghost. This God gives peace, comfort, love, strength, answers to my questions. God warns me in case of danger.
Atheists could not give me this when I lived under their regime.
P.S. If atheists get power they will have to become tyrants. History proves it.

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28-07-2015, 01:14 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(28-07-2015 12:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 02:12 AM)microterf Wrote:  It doesn't matter if there is a God or not, what matters is if the claims that are made by a religion are true.
Religion invites people to believe its claims. Religion can do this as long as it doesn't force you or me to accept its claims.
(28-07-2015 02:12 AM)microterf Wrote:  God doesn't give you anything, the comfort you get is because you THINK there is a god.
I know that there is God by the power of the Holy Ghost. This God gives peace, comfort, love, strength, answers to my questions. God warns me in case of danger.
Atheists could not give me this when I lived under their regime.
P.S. If atheists get power they will have to become tyrants. History proves it.

There is no "Atheist Regime" Atheism is a conclusion. Not to mention your "God" killed everything on earth except for one family if he exists. Even Hitler wasn't that bad.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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28-07-2015, 01:15 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  All you wonderful believers in gods and the like. I have no problem with you all believing in whatever it is you want to believe in, as long as it doesn't infringe on the human rights of anyone else. So, here's my deal.

You keep religion to yourself, no going after vulnerable or young people or even fit and healthy people - let people find their way to you. Keep your systems of belief to yourself.

And in return us atheists and 'sciency' types will keep our atheist and our 'sciency' weirdness like evolution, big bangs, medicine, transport, agriculture, commerce, computers, lighting, air conditioning, tractors, trailers, harvesters, trucks, trains, blenders, TV's, DVD's, Bluray's, genetic cures, high yield crops, bathrooms, showers, kettles, toasters, ovens, microwaves, cars, UV's, printers, power tools, rockets, robots, rotisseries, coffee machines, wood chippers, chain saws, clippers, callipers and the millions of other devices that rely on modern 'sciency' stuff - yep those evil little computer chips that are a fundamental part of everyday technology that brought you all these wonderful enhancements are built using knowledge we gained from that whacky quantum theory stuff and the nevermentionedbyreligiouspeoplebecausetheydon'tunderstandit Uncertainty principle, to ourselves.

You can't use the 'god inspired these enhancements' argument because this technology has also been used to kill people in very evil ways and Theologians can't argue for god's intention because that (by your own admission) is beyond your knowledge, plus he/she/it knows everything (apparently) so he/she/it cannot excuse himself/herself/itself from knowing about the evil use technology will be put to. So you either accept god intended it to be used for both good and evil - making him/her/it an extremely duplicitous and thoroughly untrustworthy character, casting doubts on pretty much everything he/she/it has ever done or said - or you accept humans made it. And we can all accept that humanity (as a race) is duplicitous.

Or you can sit there picking your pox scabs praying for a cure while we use science - you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you?

Deal?

Archi.

Will you return also all the inventions that theists made? You can keep the humanism and much of the social and biological Darwinism if you like!

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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28-07-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(28-07-2015 01:14 PM)microterf Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 12:37 PM)Alla Wrote:  Religion invites people to believe its claims. Religion can do this as long as it doesn't force you or me to accept its claims.
I know that there is God by the power of the Holy Ghost. This God gives peace, comfort, love, strength, answers to my questions. God warns me in case of danger.
Atheists could not give me this when I lived under their regime.
P.S. If atheists get power they will have to become tyrants. History proves it.

There is no "Atheist Regime" Atheism is a conclusion. Not to mention your "God" killed everything on earth except for one family if he exists. Even Hitler wasn't that bad.
Communists of the USSR were atheists. They created regime. If you are not communist but you will get power you will become communist or someone like communist. History proves. So, I have a concrete evidence.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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28-07-2015, 02:03 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(28-07-2015 01:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 01:14 PM)microterf Wrote:  There is no "Atheist Regime" Atheism is a conclusion. Not to mention your "God" killed everything on earth except for one family if he exists. Even Hitler wasn't that bad.
Communists of the USSR were atheists. They created regime. If you are not communist but you will get power you will become communist or someone like communist. History proves. So, I have a concrete evidence.

That's horrible use of sample sizes to proclaim "concrete evidence" even if the concept holds true. The U.S. was founded as a nation secularist and had some presidents that were non-believers. Was that an atheist regime's of Jefferson and Madison tyrannical? Or is that not strong enough of a case.

All you can conclude is still, Regimes that force you to believe something are tyrants.. Well obviously! But saying, 1 or 2 or maybe at the most 3 that unneedlessly did something some way that another will "HAVE TO" is an illogical conclusion. There is no sensible direction for that claim to hold up to. That's not concrete evidence. That's foolishly concluding something based on very poor data acquisitions.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-07-2015, 03:33 PM (This post was last modified: 29-07-2015 03:36 PM by ArchibaldFunkdust.)
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(27-07-2015 07:02 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  All you wonderful believers in gods and the like. I have no problem with you all believing in whatever it is you want to believe in, as long as it doesn't infringe on the human rights of anyone else. So, here's my deal.
You keep religion to yourself, no going after vulnerable or young people or even fit and healthy people - let people find their way to you. Keep your systems of belief to yourself.
I have right to go after vulnerable or young people or even fit and healthy people and tell them what I believe. So do not take away from me this right. This is America not Soviet Union. Are you communist? Are you socialist? I think so. At least you think like one.
If they do not want to hear me I will leave them alone.
Do all liberals/progressives/communists/socialists think they can tell others what to do? I hope not.
Liberals/progressives/communists/socialists are not gods. So, no deal.
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  And in return us atheists and 'sciency' types will keep our atheist and our 'sciency' weirdness like evolution, big bangs, medicine, transport, agriculture, commerce, computers, lighting, air conditioning, tractors, trailers, harvesters, trucks, trains, blenders, TV's, DVD's, Bluray's, genetic cures, high yield crops, bathrooms, showers, kettles, toasters, ovens, microwaves, cars, UV's, printers, power tools, rockets, robots, rotisseries, coffee machines, wood chippers, chain saws, clippers, callipers and the millions of other devices that rely on modern 'sciency' stuff - yep those evil little computer chips that are a fundamental part of everyday technology that brought you all these wonderful enhancements are built using knowledge we gained from that whacky quantum theory stuff and the nevermentionedbyreligiouspeoplebecausetheydon'tunderstandit Uncertainty principle, to ourselves.
Archi, are you trying to say that all those things were created by atheists?
(21-07-2015 03:29 AM)ArchibaldFunkdust Wrote:  Or you can sit there picking your pox scabs praying for a cure while we use science - you wouldn't want to be a hypocrite would you?
are you sure you are not an atheist-communist?


I have the freedom to use irony to expose hypocrisy if I so wish. Well done for highlighting that for me. As you say, I am free to think whatever I want if you don't like it you can demonstrate your conviction to your point in one fell swoop and go away.

Archi

"I love the term magic realism. It's about expanding how you see the world. I think we live in an age where we're just hammered to think this is what the world is. Everything's saying 'That's the world.' And it's not the world. The world is a million possible things." - TG

Salman Rushdie talks to Terry Gilliam
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29-07-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
(28-07-2015 02:03 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(28-07-2015 01:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  Communists of the USSR were atheists. They created regime. If you are not communist but you will get power you will become communist or someone like communist. History proves. So, I have a concrete evidence.

That's horrible use of sample sizes to proclaim "concrete evidence" even if the concept holds true. The U.S. was founded as a nation secularist and had some presidents that were non-believers. Was that an atheist regime's of Jefferson and Madison tyrannical? Or is that not strong enough of a case.
They didn't dream about society without religion. Founding Fathers where teaching that rights are coming from God/from Higher Power and not from man. Many atheists believe that rights come from government. This is what communists and democrats believe.
Atheist who dreams about society without religion will become communist/ democrat.

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29-07-2015, 04:21 PM
RE: Let's make a deal ...
Clyde Lee, who do you want for next president? Hilary or Republican? Do you want more Obama? do you want more government? Let's see what you say.

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