Let's spruce things up a bit
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17-11-2014, 11:42 PM
Let's spruce things up a bit
This section has been kinda dead lately, so let's get those Econ juices flowin' with a dope ass rap battle!




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18-11-2014, 01:00 AM
RE: Let's spruce things up a bit
This is the first time I've watched something on economics that didn't either bore me to sleep or piss me off too much to continue watching.

My perception of economics as a middle class American is that the Republican trickle down is rich people just taking a piss on all those less fortunate after the prison anal sex they perform on worker benefits and the Democrats want to rape the middle class with taxes since we're rich enough not to be below the poverty line. I graduated in 2009 as the economic crisis finally hit my area (Huntsville was Forbes top city to weather the economic downturn in 2008, btw) - I never got to experience the "boom" so we didn't have a nestegg to help is through it - just a house that was suddenly worth $50K less as all of our neighbors houses became foreclosed upon.

Do we really have an opportunity to evaluate the effectiveness of either theory? Every few years with the change in leadership and competing theories along with interference from big business repeatedly negates itself. Feel free to educate me - I don't have a business degree, and the courses I took were more painful than sand papering my skin off.

I would think we would have been better off to let the banks and auto industry fail than bail them out. Is that "steering the market"? Because to me it reeks of corruption. I'd like to see everyone responsible for the economic crash with their heads on a stake on the White House lawn.

But I should be over that, right? The recession is "over." That's why wages for the working class are still stagnant, I had to sell my house for a loss because my net income went DOWN five years in a row despite me losing my benefits, and my taxes still continue to go up each year.

So why would either theory fail?

With the free market and no restrictions we get monopolies or few competitors - is this why my cell phone and internet bill so high? Price gouging with gas? I mean, come on, like there's really any competition when gas at Shell is 3.67 on the right side of the street and Exxon on the left is 3.66 - at that point it's a matter of convenience for pulling in and out of the parking lot.

With the market steering we get bullshit bailouts. I'm more inclined to agree with wide scale stimulus for the people to help rev back up the economy when everyone is penny pinching just to cabbage and potatoes on the table, but not singling out major companies.

Am I completely misunderstanding this?

"If there's a single thing that life teaches us, it's that wishing doesn't make it so." - Lev Grossman
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18-11-2014, 04:44 AM
RE: Let's spruce things up a bit
The monopoly thing.... If you are in business, there are stages. If you stay nice and small, you can do well. If you start growing, you have to be ever so careful of the tax brackets. Taxes kill many a business that is run rationally. You have to spend money on crap to be allowed to grow, and dog help you if you need to cut back for any reason. I learned the hard way that cutting back on useless expenses instead of productivity can be lethal. There is a built in full stop in the tax system - if you don't have drummed up extra deductions, you slide into a tax bracket that eats up your profits.

I had to learn to let go immediately and sell to a foreign entity when this was starting to happen to save my own ass. What a shame though, there goes another business abroad once it is up and running well. The new foreign owner didn't face the same tax issues and the business would continue to thrive - just not in the US. Me - I'd go start something new and sell again once I reached a certain size.

This whole deduction stuff is for the birds and makes for totally inefficient business. There should be a flat tax rate. IMO that would be the single most effective way to help both the middle class and small business.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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18-11-2014, 05:18 AM
RE: Let's spruce things up a bit
Yeah I'm with F A Hayek on this one. Whatever Keynes really meant, it's just used as an excuse by short termist politicians to buy their way out of their problems and leave a bigger problem for their successor. The Austrian school of economics has always made more sense to me.
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19-11-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Let's spruce things up a bit
Quote:I would think we would have been better off to let the banks and auto industry fail than bail them out.

If the banks were to fail all those people who have money in them would lose that money. That's not just rich people that's middle class and poor people too.
Not to mention these banks hire a lot of people who would now be out of work.
So now the State has to pay for unemployment, it receives less tax revenue and the flow on effect of people being out of work (less money being spent in the community which is even more tax revenue loss as well as making more people less-wealthy).

Bailing out the banks was completely necessary and the situation would have been hugely worst had the US government not done so.

Quote:Because to me it reeks of corruption.

It's called running a country. Bailing out the banks was necessary.

Quote:like there's really any competition when gas at Shell is 3.67 on the right side of the street and Exxon on the left is 3.66

DON'T EVEN FUCKING GO THERE!
"Ohhh no, gas is $3.67US a gallon..."

You pay $1.23NZ for a liter of gas.
We pay $2.12NZ for a liter of gas.

That's $6.28US a gallon.

So you can just shut the fuck up about the price of gas thank you very much.

Quote:Am I completely misunderstanding this?

Yes.

Quote:If you start growing, you have to be ever so careful of the tax brackets.

Why? Your income doesn't all suddenly bump up to a new tax rate if you're in the next tax bracket. It's like the first $6k is 12%, the next $20K is taxed at 18% etc.. so if you earn $500K a year you still get that first $6K at 12% (note: not actual tax rates, just an example). So it shouldn't matter.

Quote:There should be a flat tax rate. IMO that would be the single most effective way to help both the middle class and small business.

Flat rate is stupid. The different tax brackets are the best way because they let you tax poor people less and rich people more. If you have a flat tax across the board, say 15%, than you hurt poor people (because their tax goes up) and help the rich (because their tax goes down) and you end up with a larger gap between rich and poor.

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