Let science do what it is supposed to do!
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12-04-2010, 06:33 PM
 
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 06:24 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Oh and super, while you're at it, I want you to show proof that the sky is blue. Because unless you show me proof, it doesn't matter that I can see it, the sky is not blue.

Seriously, theres a line that is constantly being crossed with regard to proof. Do you really need someone to show proof that science has shown us that the earth is round, not flat?? I mean come on.

Was there a time when people thought the earth was flat? Oh and by the way the Bible said the earth was round years before "scientists" thought it was.
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12-04-2010, 06:36 PM
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
I notice that you are studiously ignoring my post.

(12-04-2010 06:33 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Was there a time when people thought the earth was flat?

Yes. Hence the reason that the Catholic church so violently opposed Galileo's heliocentric model.

Quote:Oh and by the way the Bible said the earth was round years before "scientists" thought it was.

Chapter and verse, please.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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12-04-2010, 06:42 PM
 
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 06:36 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I notice that you are studiously ignoring my post.

(12-04-2010 06:33 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Was there a time when people thought the earth was flat?

Yes. Hence the reason that the Catholic church so violently opposed Galileo's heliocentric model.

Quote:Oh and by the way the Bible said the earth was round years before "scientists" thought it was.

Chapter and verse, please.

What post did I ignore? Plus I am busy making more rope for you.

Isaiah 40:22, the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!

In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space. It took a long time for science to catch up and reach the same conclusions. Copernicus made the discovery in 1475. But the Bible always knew. Here are two related Bible verses that were written more than 2500 years ago, and more than 1000 years before Copernicus:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV). (By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")
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12-04-2010, 06:50 PM
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
Oh of course. Since there was no word for sphere, they MUST have meant sphere when they said circle! Duh..now don't I feel silly!!

Oh, by the way Martin. You completely missed the point, not that I am suprised.

Just visiting.

-SR
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12-04-2010, 06:54 PM
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 06:42 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  What post did I ignore?

This one.

Quote:Plus I am busy making more rope for you.

Uh-huh.

Quote:Job 26:10, Prov 8:27, Isaiah 40:22, Amos 9:6. the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!

You mean these verses?

Job 26:10, KJV Wrote:He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

Nope, nothing about Earth being a sphere there.

Prov. 8:27, KJV Wrote:When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

Or there.

Isaiah 40:22, KJV Wrote:It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:

"Circle" is not the same as "sphere", and the "tent" bit goes decidedly against the Earth being a sphere. The geocentric model had the Earth as a flat circle, if you recall.

Amos 9:6, KJV Wrote:It is he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name.

And I don't see anything about the Earth being a sphere there either.

So what verses were you talking about?

Quote:In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space.

No, it doesn't. See above.

Quote:"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV). (By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")

Wrong, actually. The Hebrew language had "duwr", which means a shape similar to a ball - a sphere. "Duwr" is actually used in several verses in the Hebrew, such as Isaiah 22:18:

Quote:He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a BALL (duwr) into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord’s house.

The verse you cite uses "chuwg", which signifies a shape like a coin or disc, not a sphere.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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12-04-2010, 06:59 PM
 
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 06:13 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(12-04-2010 10:55 AM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  Science IS doing what it is supposed to do...even if it IS correcting itself, it is far more noble of science to constantly search for a better understanding of the world than to hold on to ancient beliefs (If they did hold on to old school understandings, would we even have antibiotics today?)

As a side effect (not necessarily 'by accident' but probably unexpectedly), science has been able to explain things that people could only use 'god' to explain.

If you (or any other religious zealot) do not accept the fact that science has explained aspects of life that only 'god' could before, then you are ignorant of science and any of the knowledge areas it has excelled in.

I stated this in a previous post...if you are not willing to accept my above fact, then you should be willing to do without all that science has provided...antibiotics, computers, cars, housing, clothing, etc. etc. etc.

You made the claim "If you (or any other religious zealot) do not accept the fact that science has explained aspects of life that only 'god' could before, then you are ignorant of science and any of the knowledge areas it has excelled in" is that true, the answer is yes you made the claim. Now I am asking you to prove the claim that "If you (or any other religious zealot) do not accept the fact that science has explained aspects of life that only 'god' could before" You made the claim now show support for your claim.

I am also waiting for your response to my question, is your wife a Christian or does she just believe in God?

It's funny how YOU can ask the questions and expect an answer, yet many of us have asked YOU a question and you just blatantly ignore it...

What I said was not a claim, it was my own opinion (after having to deal with you and your 'friends' for as long as I have).

Delusional? I think so. You're just grasping at straws at this point.
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12-04-2010, 07:00 PM
 
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(11-04-2010 07:36 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(11-04-2010 07:05 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  I am not really sure why so many on this site talk about science disproving the existence of God.

We don't, exactly. We talk about how science is capable of disproving specific claims about a god. Science is no more capable of disproving the existence of the Abrahamic god than it is of disproving the existence of Zeus. But specific claims about that god and what it has done - for existence, the flood - can be disproven, yes.

Quote:The way many try to show God doesn't exist is simply by asserting it, but that's not proof. It isn't even evidence, but that is what Unbeliever does all the time.

No, it isn't. I've explained this numerous times to you. I would explain it again, but I know there's no point. For everyone else, you can see me explaining this in any of the threads where I have gotten into a debate with martin. It always comes down to him repeatedly accusing me of this, even after I have demonstrated that this is not what I am doing.

Quote:But there are many things that, scientific law or empirical evidence can’t prove, love

Yes, it can.

Quote:beauty, art

Subjective.

Quote:miracles

Disproven.

Quote:God

See above.

Quote:Let science do what it is supposed to do and quit asking it to do things it is not meant to do.

And who defines what it is supposed to do and what it is not supposed to do? You? The church?

Just a quick reply to my saying "The way many try to show God doesn't exist is simply by asserting it, but that's not proof. It isn't even evidence, but that is what Unbeliever does all the time." And look what he does, here are his responses- "Yes, it can, Subjective, Disproven, See above" He proves my point about his assertions. And of course the best one, in his response to my saying "Let science do what it is supposed to do and quit asking it to do things it is not meant to do." He comes up with "And who defines what it is supposed to do and what it is not supposed to do? You? The church?"

I realize that most atheists(even though they can't really exist, as science has proven) have not really looked into what they believe, they use the term free thinkers etc. as a badge of honor, but Unbeliever has once again shown he can not follow even the easiest of posts, and I would say that is true with most on this site. I look forward to a verbal debate with him and while it won't make a difference to most, it might to some.
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12-04-2010, 07:05 PM
 
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 06:42 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(12-04-2010 06:36 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  I notice that you are studiously ignoring my post.

(12-04-2010 06:33 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Was there a time when people thought the earth was flat?

Yes. Hence the reason that the Catholic church so violently opposed Galileo's heliocentric model.

Quote:Oh and by the way the Bible said the earth was round years before "scientists" thought it was.

Chapter and verse, please.

What post did I ignore? Plus I am busy making more rope for you.

Isaiah 40:22, the Bible revealed the truth in 1000 B.C. 2500 years before man discovered it for himself!

In various verses, the Bible says the earth is round and hangs in space. It took a long time for science to catch up and reach the same conclusions. Copernicus made the discovery in 1475. But the Bible always knew. Here are two related Bible verses that were written more than 2500 years ago, and more than 1000 years before Copernicus:

"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth..." (Isaiah 40:22,NIV). (By the way, the Hebrew language at that time did not have a word for "sphere," only for "circle.")

martin...

Here's an interesting exercise...

Go to the top of a hill. Look in any direction. Point your finger straight ahead...now pivot on your heel until you have spun around 360 degrees. Have you not made a 'circle'? And, no where does it say "hangs in space"...you cannot translate 'heaven' to 'space' when devices like telescopes weren't invented until the 17th century by Galileo. Nice try...
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12-04-2010, 07:06 PM
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 07:00 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  Just a quick reply to my saying "The way many try to show God doesn't exist is simply by asserting it, but that's not proof. It isn't even evidence, but that is what Unbeliever does all the time." And look what he does, here are his responses- "Yes, it can, Subjective, Disproven, See above" He proves my point about his assertions.

Did you even bother to read my post? I specifically said, at the very beginning, that science cannot disprove the existence of a god, but it can prove or disprove specific claims about that god. The things you listed were specific claims. What about this do you not understand?

Quote:And of course the best one, in his response to my saying "Let science do what it is supposed to do and quit asking it to do things it is not meant to do." He comes up with "And who defines what it is supposed to do and what it is not supposed to do? You? The church?"

And your answer is...?

Quote:I realize that most atheists(even though they can't really exist, as science has proven)

Except that we can, as science hasn't prove that we can't. Neither have you. To anyone who missed martin's debut on this site, here's a link.

Quote:have not really looked into what they believe, they use the term free thinkers etc. as a badge of honor, but Unbeliever has once again shown he can not follow even the easiest of posts, and I would say that is true with most on this site. I look forward to a verbal debate with him and while it won't make a difference to most, it might to some.

So when you completely fail to grasp the point of what I said, it's me that can't follow your post?
Perhaps you should take a little bit longer to read what you're responding to.

"Sometimes it is better to light a flamethrower than to curse the darkness."
- Terry Pratchett
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12-04-2010, 07:06 PM
 
RE: Let science do what it is supposed to do!
(12-04-2010 06:59 PM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  
(12-04-2010 06:13 PM)martinb59 Wrote:  
(12-04-2010 10:55 AM)supermanlives1973 Wrote:  Science IS doing what it is supposed to do...even if it IS correcting itself, it is far more noble of science to constantly search for a better understanding of the world than to hold on to ancient beliefs (If they did hold on to old school understandings, would we even have antibiotics today?)

As a side effect (not necessarily 'by accident' but probably unexpectedly), science has been able to explain things that people could only use 'god' to explain.

If you (or any other religious zealot) do not accept the fact that science has explained aspects of life that only 'god' could before, then you are ignorant of science and any of the knowledge areas it has excelled in.

I stated this in a previous post...if you are not willing to accept my above fact, then you should be willing to do without all that science has provided...antibiotics, computers, cars, housing, clothing, etc. etc. etc.

You made the claim "If you (or any other religious zealot) do not accept the fact that science has explained aspects of life that only 'god' could before, then you are ignorant of science and any of the knowledge areas it has excelled in" is that true, the answer is yes you made the claim. Now I am asking you to prove the claim that "If you (or any other religious zealot) do not accept the fact that science has explained aspects of life that only 'god' could before" You made the claim now show support for your claim.

I am also waiting for your response to my question, is your wife a Christian or does she just believe in God?

It's funny how YOU can ask the questions and expect an answer, yet many of us have asked YOU a question and you just blatantly ignore it...

What I said was not a claim, it was my own opinion (after having to deal with you and your 'friends' for as long as I have).

Delusional? I think so. You're just grasping at straws at this point.

I am one in a sea of many! I like what you have said in the past and still do. I promise if you ask me ANY question I will answer YOU Stark. So please ask me any question you want, on any topic, any verse, any scientific problem etc.
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