Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
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24-12-2015, 12:15 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(23-12-2015 05:48 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear Girly

You ever say this to a woman in Australia and she'll knock you out!

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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24-12-2015, 03:43 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(23-12-2015 05:48 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear Girly, I am so glad that you have connected with me, you see I always hope that someone will actually connect with me, in particular with the end message I put at the bottom of my posts -- instead dodging everywhere, saying things which are to my observation not apropos to my invitation to everyone to work together, you and I toward achieving a common idea of what or how it is to prove something exists.


So, you want to know what is my idea of existence.

You say. "I am far more interested in your concept of existence. Can you describe that for me in a non-circular fashion which doesn't necessitate the presumption of your very existence in the first place?"

Have you read my first posts here?

You see, existence is the broadest of concepts, it embraces all concepts whatever, without it there is no understanding of any concepts at all, and therefore you will not be able to locate something in reality outside your mind, to correspond to a concept in your mind if you do not master the concept of existence.

And the first experience of a conscious entity like us humans, it is the experience of existence, so that if you are not a conscious entity there cannot be any experience at all of anything, and first and foremost not the experience of existence itself.

I will dare to say that experience of consciousness is the permeating medium of our human existence; this experience of consciousness itself is insofar as conscious entities like us humans are concerned, it is in effect equivalent to existence.

When you are in a fainted spell, or in deep profound dreamless sleep, or in a coma, or in complete total anesthesia, you in effect do not exist while you are in those conditions, by which you are no different from a lump of meat the cells of which are animate, but there is no longer any entity that is you a human, and also no longer you a person.

Twice in my lifetime I was in total anesthesia, when I got back to consciousness I could recall only that I was somewhat like talkative with the two doctors, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist, and the nurses, imagining myself to be such an absorbing speaker or err talker – and then I blanked out until I came back to consciousness again many hours later.

You see, I mentioned the experience of touching your nose and the nose of your partner in conversation and (s)he doing the same act, to come to know with certainty the existence of the nose in our face; and also I mentioned my eating corn grits and coming to the experience of the eating of corn grits and wherefore the existence of corn grits, and also the non-existence of corn grits in my home, when I have depleted my stock of corn grits; and I likewise mentioned how kids come to know the difference between existence and non-existence, when they finished all the ice cream in the freezer.

I think I also mentioned my own eventual dying as is the lot of all living things, which is the last experience of an event in process, which I will no longer be around to know that it has been completed, namely, the course of dying – although while in that process I know from experience in seeing how people die, that it will be like that.

So, for us humans, existence is in effect the experience of consciousness, which consciousness is the status in which we can experience everything like eating, drinking, pain in our abdomen, etc., like love and also sex, and very important the existence of other humans and of anything at all existing, even mental things i.e. thoughts in our mind.

Sounds like a tautology?

I was trying to tell someone here that what he thinks about a tautology is altogether to miss the purpose of what to him is a just a useless tautology.

Forgive me, tell me why according to that someone, I don't recall his name here, "Paco is Francisco" is a tautology, and also "The default status of things in the world is existence" is a tautology.

It is because according to him the subject and the predicate of such sentences are identical. Well, that is pretty smart of him, but not really of any genuine insight into things, which would be if he were into the habit and skill of seeing the bigger picture of things.

I said folks usually read a lot of things wrongly and it is because writers do not know any better, and they writers like their readers are also into rote recall of rote learning.

Forgive me, suppose as you are also I am sure of the idea that "Paco is Francisco" and "The default status of things in the world is existence" are tautology, and you are so intelligent to state that there isn't anything new to know from tautologies: suppose you do some really genuine and productive thinking, going beyond your self-routinized path of seeing into things, by asking yourself, whether there are people who come to know something new from "Paco is Francisco" and "The default status of things in the world is existence."

I like very much to exchange thoughts with you, and I look forward with excitement to read your answer to my question above.


Cheers!
Where is any argument for this proclamation that existence is default?

You're just stating it's a tautology with no demonstration of a case for it being so. Sure Pablo is Fransicso is established via it being simply labels & working on a if x=y then y=x type of logical basis. Yet you're not defining the case of existence that way, you're just leaping to assume it. You're making the pressuptional case that it just is default.

If you're trying to make a case with sensation, you haven't developed it out yet. Okay like I said before, you can touch your nose & eat grits, So what? You haven't linked that to a argument ot tautology, you're just stating you think you have one. One can think there are other beings who experience these sensations similar to oneself but that doesn't prove they exist outside oneself. There isn't a proof or case at all set by you showing how to conclude your proclamations.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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24-12-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.



Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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24-12-2015, 12:47 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(23-12-2015 07:12 PM)Tartarus Sauce Wrote:  I'm always stupefied to discover people dwelling on this forum that have yet to understand that Girlyman and Girlyman alone is the locus of existence and that all else is illusions and existential parlor tricks. I thought one was subject to this epiphany by mere exposure of his holiness's presence, but alas, we still have non-believers in our midst. What simple minded fools.

We are all GirlyMan. Drinking Beverage

#sigh
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24-12-2015, 12:55 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(23-12-2015 05:48 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  When you are in a fainted spell, or in deep profound dreamless sleep, or in a coma, or in complete total anesthesia, you in effect do not exist while you are in those conditions, by which you are no different from a lump of meat the cells of which are animate, but there is no longer any entity that is you a human, and also no longer you a person.

If existence is the default status if things then how could we possibly change to a non-default status simply by lapsing into unconsciousness?

If existence cannot come from nonexistence and if we cease to exist while sleeping then how do we ever manage to awken from a light nap?

Congratulations! You've graduated from incoherent gibberish to self-contadictory incoherent gibberish.

Or perhaps you are trying to tell us that you drifted off once, ceased to exist as a thinking entity, and have been posting ever since.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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24-12-2015, 12:56 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
oops Blush

See here they are the bruises some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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24-12-2015, 01:48 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
Really disappointed that we have not discussed cheese yet in this thread. I mean, it's just begging for it...

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-12-2015, 01:55 PM
Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
I can tell you how to make ricotta at home in 30 minutes to 12 hours depending on how you like it. Or how to make paneer. The latter won't melt but is good for cubes, for kebabs or snacking.
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24-12-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(24-12-2015 01:55 PM)Clockwork Wrote:  I can tell you how to make ricotta at home in 30 minutes to 12 hours depending on how you like it. Or how to make paneer. The latter won't melt but is good for cubes, for kebabs or snacking.

I'd love to know how.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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24-12-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(24-12-2015 01:48 PM)evenheathen Wrote:  Really disappointed that we have not discussed cheese yet in this thread. I mean, it's just begging for it...

And then, I need to learn how to make strawberry crepes.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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