Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
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25-12-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
Dear posters here, please present your self-thought-out exposition on the concept of existence.

Here is my exposition.

You see, existence is the broadest of concepts, it embraces all concepts whatever, without it there is no understanding of any concepts at all, and therefore you will not be able to locate something in reality outside your mind, to correspond to a concept in your mind if you do not master the concept of existence.

And the first experience of a conscious entity like us humans, it is the experience of existence, so that if you are not a conscious entity there cannot be any experience at all of anything, and first and foremost not the experience of existence itself.

I will dare to say that experience of consciousness is the permeating medium of our human existence; this experience of consciousness itself is insofar as conscious entities like us humans are concerned, it is in effect equivalent to existence.

When you are in a fainted spell, or in deep profound dreamless sleep, or in a coma, or in complete total anesthesia, you in effect do not exist while you are in those conditions, by which you are no different from a lump of meat the cells of which are animate, but there is no longer any entity that is you a human, and also no longer you a person.

Twice in my lifetime I was in total anesthesia, when I got back to consciousness I could recall only that I was somewhat like talkative with the two doctors, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist, and the nurses, imagining myself to be such an absorbing speaker or err talker – and then I blanked out until I came back to consciousness again many hours later.

You see, I mentioned the experience of touching your nose and the nose of your partner in conversation and (s)he doing the same act, to come to know with certainty the existence of the nose in our face; and also I mentioned my eating corn grits and coming to the experience of the eating of corn grits and wherefore the existence of corn grits, and also the non-existence of corn grits in my home, when I have depleted my stock of corn grits; and I likewise mentioned how kids come to know the difference between existence and non-existence, when they finished all the ice cream in the freezer.

I think I also mentioned my own eventual dying as is the lot of all living things, which is the last experience of an event in process, which I will no longer be around to know that it has been completed, namely, the course of dying – although while in that process I know from experience in seeing how people die, that it will be like that.

So, for us humans, existence is in effect the experience of consciousness, which consciousness is the status in which we can experience everything like eating, drinking, pain in our abdomen, etc., like love and also sex, and very important the existence of other humans and of anything at all existing, even mental things i.e. thoughts in our mind. [505 words]



Yesterday, 07:48 AM
#150

Pachomius
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25-12-2015, 08:10 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 08:06 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear posters here, please present your self-thought-out exposition on the concept of existence.

Here is my exposition.

You see, existence is the broadest of concepts, it embraces all concepts whatever, without it there is no understanding of any concepts at all, and therefore you will not be able to locate something in reality outside your mind, to correspond to a concept in your mind if you do not master the concept of existence.

And the first experience of a conscious entity like us humans, it is the experience of existence, so that if you are not a conscious entity there cannot be any experience at all of anything, and first and foremost not the experience of existence itself.

I will dare to say that experience of consciousness is the permeating medium of our human existence; this experience of consciousness itself is insofar as conscious entities like us humans are concerned, it is in effect equivalent to existence.

When you are in a fainted spell, or in deep profound dreamless sleep, or in a coma, or in complete total anesthesia, you in effect do not exist while you are in those conditions, by which you are no different from a lump of meat the cells of which are animate, but there is no longer any entity that is you a human, and also no longer you a person.

Twice in my lifetime I was in total anesthesia, when I got back to consciousness I could recall only that I was somewhat like talkative with the two doctors, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist, and the nurses, imagining myself to be such an absorbing speaker or err talker – and then I blanked out until I came back to consciousness again many hours later.

You see, I mentioned the experience of touching your nose and the nose of your partner in conversation and (s)he doing the same act, to come to know with certainty the existence of the nose in our face; and also I mentioned my eating corn grits and coming to the experience of the eating of corn grits and wherefore the existence of corn grits, and also the non-existence of corn grits in my home, when I have depleted my stock of corn grits; and I likewise mentioned how kids come to know the difference between existence and non-existence, when they finished all the ice cream in the freezer.

I think I also mentioned my own eventual dying as is the lot of all living things, which is the last experience of an event in process, which I will no longer be around to know that it has been completed, namely, the course of dying – although while in that process I know from experience in seeing how people die, that it will be like that.

So, for us humans, existence is in effect the experience of consciousness, which consciousness is the status in which we can experience everything like eating, drinking, pain in our abdomen, etc., like love and also sex, and very important the existence of other humans and of anything at all existing, even mental things i.e. thoughts in our mind. [505 words]



Yesterday, 07:48 AM
#150

Pachomius
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You are a dick head, Kindly fuck off.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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25-12-2015, 08:17 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
Oh FFS.

I don't agree with any of your points, but for the sake of argument let's say I do.

Let's save another 20 pages of this twaddle:

Oh great Pachomius, you have proved to me that existence = consciousness, etc.,, please show me the steps that take us from "proving that something exists" to therefore god.
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25-12-2015, 08:19 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 08:17 AM)julep Wrote:  Oh FFS.

I don't agree with any of your points, but for the sake of argument let's say I do.

Let's save another 20 pages of this twaddle:

Oh great Pachomius, you have proved to me that existence = consciousness, etc.,, please show me the steps that take us from "proving that something exists" to therefore god.

Easy. Rubbish man collects rubbish, therefore god.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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25-12-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 08:06 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear posters here, please present your self-thought-out exposition on the concept of existence.

Why? You've repeatedly demonstrated that you have no interest or ability to acknowledge, let alone engage, any reply that disagrees with your pre-ill-conceived notions.

Quote:Here is my exposition.

You see, existence is the broadest of concepts, it embraces all concepts whatever, without it there is no understanding of any concepts at all, and therefore you will not be able to locate something in reality outside your mind, to correspond to a concept in your mind if you do not master the concept of existence.

There is existence and then there is the concept of existence. You apparently conflate the two making it impossible to have a rational discussion about either.

Quote:And the first experience of a conscious entity like us humans, it is the experience of existence, so that if you are not a conscious entity there cannot be any experience at all of anything, and first and foremost not the experience of existence itself.

I suspect you think that is some kind of profound realization. It isn't. All you are saying is that if something is not conscious then it is not conscious.

Quote:I will dare to say that experience of consciousness is the permeating medium of our human existence; this experience of consciousness itself is insofar as conscious entities like us humans are concerned, it is in effect equivalent to existence.

No, it is not equivalent to existence. Things that are not conscious still exist.

Quote:When you are in a fainted spell, or in deep profound dreamless sleep, or in a coma, or in complete total anesthesia, you in effect do not exist while you are in those conditions, by which you are no different from a lump of meat the cells of which are animate, but there is no longer any entity that is you a human, and also no longer you a person.

Here it appears that you have reached the point of being fractally wrong. Even if I accepted the idea that "I" am only the surface-level consciousness (which I do not) then the idea that it gets disconnected from sensory input and/or memory recording does not mean that it ceases to exist. Even if some functions do get completely shut down they are not the whole. You have a very simplistic view of consciousness.

Quote:Twice in my lifetime I was in total anesthesia, when I got back to consciousness I could recall only that I was somewhat like talkative with the two doctors, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist, and the nurses, imagining myself to be such an absorbing speaker or err talker – and then I blanked out until I came back to consciousness again many hours later.

If you take that to mean that you ceased to exist then how were you reconstituted afterwards?

Quote:You see, I mentioned the experience of touching your nose and the nose of your partner in conversation and (s)he doing the same act, to come to know with certainty the existence of the nose in our face; and also I mentioned my eating corn grits and coming to the experience of the eating of corn grits and wherefore the existence of corn grits, and also the non-existence of corn grits in my home, when I have depleted my stock of corn grits; and I likewise mentioned how kids come to know the difference between existence and non-existence, when they finished all the ice cream in the freezer.

What point do you think you are making here? We presuppose an objective reality and we identify parts of that reality by repeatedly checking the evidence of our senses and comparing our results with what others report as the evidence of their senses. So what?

Quote:I think I also mentioned my own eventual dying as is the lot of all living things, which is the last experience of an event in process, which I will no longer be around to know that it has been completed, namely, the course of dying – although while in that process I know from experience in seeing how people die, that it will be like that.

Yes, when you are dead your consciousness will no longer exist. What point do you think that makes? Death is not the same as sleep since sleep only temporarily inhibits some functionality.

Quote:So, for us humans, existence is in effect the experience of consciousness, which consciousness is the status in which we can experience everything like eating, drinking, pain in our abdomen, etc., like love and also sex, and very important the existence of other humans and of anything at all existing, even mental things i.e. thoughts in our mind.

Consciousness is very important to us but it is not the same as existence except maybe in a poetic sense.

Quote:[505 words]

That you have posted many times, They don't say anything more by repeating them ad nauseam. Free clue: the word count is not important, the content of those words is important.

Why do you keep repeating this stuff when just about every reply says that your ideas are incoherent or just wrong? If you want a discussion, try replying to specific points elaborating on why you think you are right or showing that you can modify what you believe. Simply re-stating the same claims while ignoring all critiques is not productive.

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25-12-2015, 09:25 AM (This post was last modified: 25-12-2015 10:08 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 08:06 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear posters here, please present your self-thought-out exposition on the concept of existence.

Pachomius,
You see that rock over there ?
Go smack your head as hard as possible into it.
Now tell me. Does that rock exist ? Is that rock conscious ?

You exist.
The rock exists. You just proved that part.
Only one of the above is conscious. You or the rock ?

Hint : it's not the rock.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-12-2015, 09:53 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
If you are able to detect it by any means possible and then measure its properties, you can pretty much say it exists. Others then can reproduce what you have detected to verify your findings.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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25-12-2015, 10:26 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 08:06 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear posters here, please present your self-thought-out exposition on the concept of existence.

Here is my exposition.

You see, existence is the broadest of concepts, it embraces all concepts whatever, without it there is no understanding of any concepts at all, and therefore you will not be able to locate something in reality outside your mind, to correspond to a concept in your mind if you do not master the concept of existence.

And the first experience of a conscious entity like us humans, it is the experience of existence, so that if you are not a conscious entity there cannot be any experience at all of anything, and first and foremost not the experience of existence itself.

I will dare to say that experience of consciousness is the permeating medium of our human existence; this experience of consciousness itself is insofar as conscious entities like us humans are concerned, it is in effect equivalent to existence.

When you are in a fainted spell, or in deep profound dreamless sleep, or in a coma, or in complete total anesthesia, you in effect do not exist while you are in those conditions, by which you are no different from a lump of meat the cells of which are animate, but there is no longer any entity that is you a human, and also no longer you a person.

Twice in my lifetime I was in total anesthesia, when I got back to consciousness I could recall only that I was somewhat like talkative with the two doctors, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist, and the nurses, imagining myself to be such an absorbing speaker or err talker – and then I blanked out until I came back to consciousness again many hours later.

You see, I mentioned the experience of touching your nose and the nose of your partner in conversation and (s)he doing the same act, to come to know with certainty the existence of the nose in our face; and also I mentioned my eating corn grits and coming to the experience of the eating of corn grits and wherefore the existence of corn grits, and also the non-existence of corn grits in my home, when I have depleted my stock of corn grits; and I likewise mentioned how kids come to know the difference between existence and non-existence, when they finished all the ice cream in the freezer.

I think I also mentioned my own eventual dying as is the lot of all living things, which is the last experience of an event in process, which I will no longer be around to know that it has been completed, namely, the course of dying – although while in that process I know from experience in seeing how people die, that it will be like that.

So, for us humans, existence is in effect the experience of consciousness, which consciousness is the status in which we can experience everything like eating, drinking, pain in our abdomen, etc., like love and also sex, and very important the existence of other humans and of anything at all existing, even mental things i.e. thoughts in our mind. [505 words]



Yesterday, 07:48 AM
#150

Pachomius
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Copy pasted spam, and still as fucking wrong as it was the first time.

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25-12-2015, 10:28 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 08:06 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear posters here...
... a shitload of words...

Nope. You demand 50 words per post, so that's all you get.
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25-12-2015, 11:43 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(25-12-2015 09:25 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-12-2015 08:06 AM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear posters here, please present your self-thought-out exposition on the concept of existence.

Pachomius,
You see that rock over there ?
Go smack your head as hard as possible into it.
Now tell me. Does that rock exist ? Is that rock conscious ?

You exist.
The rock exists. You just proved that part.
Only one of the above is conscious. You or the rock ?

Hint : it's not the rock.

If he hits himself on the head hard enough, it won't be Pachomius, either. Big Grin
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