Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
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18-12-2015, 05:09 AM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(17-12-2015 08:35 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Dear Reltzik:

Thanks for your reply.

You and I exist, and we are certain about that, and our nose also.

But you write so much words to, I wonder what, to DISprove that you and I exist and also our nose?

But it is so easy and to a certainty, that you and I exist, and also our nose: by touching.

Have you tried this simple experiment, pinch your nose hard, really hard, or hit yourself in the head, hard, really hard.

Still using so many words to prove I understand that you cannot be sure that you exist?

In which case, I guess I have to dispense myself from exchanging ideas with you about how humans prove that something exists in reality outside of our mind.

You see, everyone, first we are certain that we exist and also everything that we have as parts of our existence, like the nose in our face.

Then we will proceed to work together to ascertain how we can also prove the existence of things which are not part and parcel of our say, body.

Is that all right with everyone?

We cannot proceed to the next agenda unless you are certain that you exist and also every part of you exists like say, the nose in your face and the bead err I mean head on your shoulders.

Forgive me, as I said, if you find my writing here annoying, tell me in a few words why, I will revise it so that you will not complain anymore.

I find myself to be offending people who are not happy with me because according to them I am into funny condescension on them.

What I try to do is to influence folks so that they have their feet always on firm earth, and not into so many words, when one touch of the nose is enough to arrive at certainty of existence of our selves and our body parts, may I, like the nose in our face.

Dear readers, sooner than later, some people here will complain that they can't understand my English, in which case I suggest they bring my posts to the local grade school teacher of English grammar and writing, and ask her or him whether (s)he can make head and tail of my English.

So, everyone, as soon as we have come to agreement that we have certainty of the existence of our selves and our noses, then we will work together to come to master the proof or the skill to prove the existence of things which we cannot get in contact with by touching.

I almost forgot, about how we prove the certainty of our nose by touching it, there are a very exiguous few humans who cannot be sure that they have a nose, that is a sickness; and if the sickness is so grievous, then society will have to confine them in safety asylum: because they are of no worthwhile interactive relationship with the rest of society, and also for their own health and survival.

Now, dear folks here who are not sick like the above described exiguous minority, let not you take the plunge of drawing the overwhelming faulty conclusion, that therefore man cannot be certain that he exists in actual reality, from by just touching for example his nose -- unless you want to imagine that you are such most abysmal philosophers of a certain un-falsifiable school of insane thinking or more correctly, vanity imagination.

You pinch your nose or create some other sensory input. So what? You have created a sensation, okay.

What do you think that having created this sensation means or proves?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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18-12-2015, 03:26 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
Thanks everyone for your display of learning, though I fear you could be into non-thinking at all, at least in term of critical thinking, but just regurgitating things you have read about, and now imagine that it is self-flattering to repeat them in a forum, and taking it for granted that your readers are awed by your learning.


The title of this thread is: "Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists."

The title says that it is an invitation to people who know things exist, and will work with me to come to ways and means to prove to themselves and others possessed of critical thinking that things do exist.

So, for folks who know that there are things that do not exist, they can dispense themselves from this thread; but they can think up another thread to this effect: "Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something does not exist."

Do you get what I am telling you?

Do you realize that existence is the default status of things in the world, meaning existence is in everything that humans are into, it is the permeating medium of everything: so that there is existence even in that status of things in which status of things there was no sub-status of the existence of the universe, which according to scientists came into existence some 13.7 billion years ago -- counting the time duration of the universe from the present to the past, to the time point at which time point the universe began to exist: together with time and space which began with the universe, and they time and space make up the kind of medium in which the universe exists, where we find ourselves also existing in.

See next post from me.
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18-12-2015, 03:30 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(18-12-2015 03:26 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Thanks everyone for your display of learning, though I fear you could be into non-thinking at all, at least in term of critical thinking, but just regurgitating things you have read about, and now imagine that it is self-flattering to repeat them in a forum, and taking it for granted that your readers are awed by your learning.

Out of curiosity, are you this much of a pompous jackass in real life (and so incredibly, ironically self-unaware) or only on the internet?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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18-12-2015, 03:54 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(18-12-2015 03:26 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Thanks everyone for your display of learning, though I fear you could be into non-thinking at all, at least in term of critical thinking, but just regurgitating things you have read about, and now imagine that it is self-flattering to repeat them in a forum, and taking it for granted that your readers are awed by your learning.

Or perhaps some of us have some passing familiarity with existentialism and ontology. Perhaps you could pick up the pace a bit because proceeding at the speed of "Philosophy for the Mentally Deficient 101" you have, after four pages, managed to convince most of us that you have a nose on your face.

(18-12-2015 03:26 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Do you realize that existence is the default status of things in the world, meaning existence is in everything that humans are into, it is the permeating medium of everything: so that there is existence even in that status of things in which status of things there was no sub-status of the existence of the universe, which according to scientists came into existence some 13.7 billion years ago -- counting the time duration of the universe from the present to the past, to the time point at which time point the universe began to exist: together with time and space which began with the universe, and they time and space make up the kind of medium in which the universe exists, where we find ourselves also existing in.

What did those poor words ever do to you? Seriously, please stop abusing them that way.

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18-12-2015, 03:57 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(17-12-2015 08:35 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  You and I exist, and we are certain about that, and our nose also.

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts." - Bertrand

#sigh
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18-12-2015, 04:09 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(18-12-2015 03:26 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Do you realize that existence is the default status of things in the world, meaning existence is in everything that humans are into, it is the permeating medium of everything: so that there is existence even in that status of things in which status of things there was no sub-status of the existence of the universe, which according to scientists came into existence some 13.7 billion years ago -- counting the time duration of the universe from the present to the past, to the time point at which time point the universe began to exist: together with time and space which began with the universe, and they time and space make up the kind of medium in which the universe exists, where we find ourselves also existing in.

See next post from me.

You do realize that if your god exists, (and we KNOW you are getting to that BS), that as long at it existed, .... non-existence also was a part of Reality, of necessity. The question is then, where did Reality come from, if your stupid deity MUST and always had to participate in only a fraction of Reality. Reality is and always was LARGER than your puny god. The gods are an answer to nothing, Pachomius.

Oh well. Back to the hermitage with you for two more years, and meditate on that one. K ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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18-12-2015, 04:54 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
Now, all of us who know that things exist, the first foundation for proving that some specific thing does exist, we must keep in mind that existence is the status of things in the world; we cannot be into the pseudo foundation that existence is not the default status of things in the world.

Why not? Because then we would not be existing if the status of things in the world is non-existence, that means not even any mind at all is existing and doing any thinking, like whether existence is the default status of things or non-existence.

So, the first step in proving that something exists is to start with the most ultimate foundation of proof, namely: that existence is the default status of things in the world.

The next step is to confirm to ourselves that you and I are existing, i.e., we are participating in the default status of things in the world, which is existence.

How do we confirm to ourselves that we exist, i.e., that we participate in the default status of things in the world, which is existence?

By experiencing how a thing was existing previously and now no longer existing, it has gone out of the default status of things in the world which is existence.

Take this everyday situation in my home: I have corn grits in the house, for I eat corn grits instead of rice, because corn grits is cheaper, more nutritious, and more healthy than rice, I mean milled rice which is stripped altogether of its complete outer coating.

When I have consumed my stock of corn grits, it does not exist anymore in my house; and that is what will happen to me when I die, at least insofar as my living body is concerned -- let us for the present not bring in the existence if any of a soul.

So, if you have kids who do not know the difference between existence and non-existence, tell them what is existence and what is non-existence, by using the example of ice cream left in the freezer, that ice cream is in existence; when they have eaten all of the ice cream, then the ice cream is no longer in existence.

Summing up, let us agree that step 1 and step 2 to prove the existence of something are the following:

1. First we are absolutely certain in our knowledge that the default status of things in the world is existence.

2, Now, in regard to things that we experience directly through our contact and interaction of them, to prove their existence consists in impacting on them with our senses: like touch, taste, smell, sight, and hearing.

What about our consciousness, how do we impact into our consciousness to prove that it exists?

Dwell on that question with employing critical thinking, i.e., reasoning grounded on truths, facts, and logic.
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18-12-2015, 05:00 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
(18-12-2015 04:54 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Now, all of us who know that things exist, the first foundation for proving that some specific thing does exist, we must keep in mind that existence is the status of things in the world; we cannot be into the pseudo foundation that existence is not the default status of things in the world.

Why? Seems like the most reasonable assumption is non-existence and the burden is on you to prove existence.

(18-12-2015 04:54 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Why not? Because then we would not be existing if the status of things in the world is non-existence, that means not even any mind at all is existing and doing any thinking, like whether existence is the default status of things or non-existence.

Yeah, Descartes tried this. He failed.

(18-12-2015 04:54 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  So, the first step in proving that something exists is to start with the most ultimate foundation of proof, namely: that existence is the default status of things in the world.

Prove it.

(18-12-2015 04:54 PM)Pachomius Wrote:  Summing up, let us agree that step 1 and step 2 to prove the existence of something are the following:

1. First we are absolutely certain in our knowledge that the default status of things in the world is existence.

I do not stipulate that.

#sigh
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18-12-2015, 05:10 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
We're talking about the existence of the Supreme Ruling And Creative Enity Of All Space And Time here, right? The existence of such a thing should be blatantly obvious, carrying such weight as to be utterly undeniable to even the most skeptical mind- especially since accepting this entity and knowing how to appease it are decisions on which the fate of our immortal souls rests.

Such high stakes! Why then would this entity, who (it is said) created us for the singular purpose of knowing Him/Her/It, make itself knowable only through tenuous and esoteric modes of thinking?

There should be plain, undeniable evidence. No need for logic games. Present it. I await the weight of its obviousness.

There is no "I" in "team" but there is a broken and mixed up "me."
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18-12-2015, 05:16 PM
RE: Let us work together to concur on how to prove that something exists.
Please don't hold your breath.
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