Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
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04-04-2016, 09:02 PM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
Note before reading the following: I am all for providing men with more efficient, personal means of birth control for a good number of reasons, which I do not find it necessary to get into here. That part of the discussion is fairly straightforward and I have no objections to it.

That said.


(03-04-2016 04:35 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Instead of standard birth control in it's various forms including abortion which leads to woman control

Women having access to birth control and abortions is not a means of controlling women. It is, in fact, what most women would say they want.

(03-04-2016 04:35 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  lets do the other option that has never been considered in the patriarchy world... sperm/conception control or man control.

We do not live in a patriarchy.

Male birth control options have been considered for quite some time. The difficulty is in implementing it without resulting in outright infertility. No one is ignoring it or failing to consider it as an option. It is simply hard to do.

(03-04-2016 04:35 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  By this I mean controlling the application and usage of the male's sperm. A woman's eggs drop and are flushed out every month without any need for the woman to be controlled for her pregnancy. It's not until you add the man's sperm that pregnancy can happen so why aren't we controlling men's behavior instead of women's?

A man's sperm can be ejaculated on a regular basis and not result in pregnancy. It's not until you add the woman's egg that pregnancy can happen, so why aren't we controlling women's behavior instead of men's?

It takes two to tango. Trying to act as though unwanted pregnancies are solely the fault of the male and his dangerously unregulated orgasms is incredibly one-sided and misleading.

(03-04-2016 04:35 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Women have been responsible for protecting themselves from pregnancy forever

Everyone is responsible for preventing pregnancy. Since forever. Men get the same education about contraception that women do, and get it driven in just as hard. No one wants a surprise baby.

(03-04-2016 04:35 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  So I propose we use man control for a change and create new laws to control men's behavior. We could sanction sex and have men get permits to engage in it with contracted responsibilities. We could give each young man a vasectomy (for free as well as the reversal at a later date) and let him have all the consensual sex he wants until such time that he gets a female to agree to carry his offspring, again a contractual agreement to which both parties would be bound unless some medical issue developed and the woman, if at undue risk to herself, could resend the process, agreed upon in advance, of course. At that time he can have the reversal done and voile' the baby making can begin.

What the actual fuck.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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05-04-2016, 12:56 AM (This post was last modified: 05-04-2016 01:05 AM by Thumpalumpacus.)
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(04-04-2016 09:02 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  
(03-04-2016 04:35 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  Instead of standard birth control in it's various forms including abortion which leads to woman control

Women having access to birth control and abortions is not a means of controlling women. It is, in fact, what most women would say they want.

Heathen is certainly able to speak for herself and may well wish to correct my presumption, but I think what she's saying here is that by delegating birth control to women --and then subsequently having a male-dominated legislature enacting the laws regulating such procedures, hormones, and abortifacients such as RU-486 -- that in emphasizing the female's responsibility for birth-control, society is indeed creating a lever for controlling women in general.

I could be reading her wrong, and stand open to correction from both you and her. But it seems to me that the raw facts of biology place quite a bit of responsibility upon the woman anyway. Medicine has advanced enough that the focus of birth control remaining the woman's responsibility seems to say something about our society -- I mean, if society thought birth control was that important, would there not be more emphasis on male responsibility?

In short, it's not women having access to birth control and abortion that creates the conditions for "woman control", but rather, that our society uses the fact that it is easier to regulate the dispensation of 360 ovula in a lifetime versus 300 million sperm cells per ejacula in order to maintain the status quo of gender relations. It is easier to develop a BC pill for women, and in a happy coincidence, that places more responsibility on women for pregnancy upon the women who already bear the majority of responsibility for such an event anyway. Meanwhile, research dollars towards male BC (apportioned by a largely male hierarchy) are hard to come by (both puns, like many pregnancies, happy accidents).

As I said, I could be reading either or both of you wrong. But my take is that abortion laws, and many other social practices, are a matter of the is/ought fallacy, run amok, regarding genders. Simply because women can have children doesn't mean that they are the ones who should be forced into the sole responsibility for birth control.
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05-04-2016, 01:13 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(04-04-2016 07:18 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  As a CASA Advocate I am also an advocate of "don't have children unless you feel your life won't be complete without them".

I would prefer something in line of: don't have children till you're financially stable and and you're sure that you can raise them right.

For me would be parents wanting to have children means shit, for it is child well-being that matters; having children isn't your right, it's kids who have right to good life. I couldn't care less about people feeling incomplete or whatever else when such feeling are compared with suffering of child which is blameless.

I don't like children so I do not plan on having them. I prefer to spend my time on whatever catch my fancy, same thing with money. I dream that more people will grow to see it that way - not wanting to have child isn't wrong, immature, selfish or whatever. It's called being responsible. After all you can't hurt what you don't have and I'm far from certain that I would be a good parent.

(04-04-2016 07:18 PM)Heatheness Wrote:  I'm happy to see more people pushback against the procreate tide if they want.

I would be happy to but rather for children sake. After all it is them who could pay for parents stupidity - being hungry or abused are only most glaring examples.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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05-04-2016, 03:25 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(05-04-2016 12:56 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 09:02 PM)Unbeliever Wrote:  Women having access to birth control and abortions is not a means of controlling women. It is, in fact, what most women would say they want.

Heathen is certainly able to speak for herself and may well wish to correct my presumption, but I think what she's saying here is that by delegating birth control to women --and then subsequently having a male-dominated legislature enacting the laws regulating such procedures, hormones, and abortifacients such as RU-486 -- that in emphasizing the female's responsibility for birth-control, society is indeed creating a lever for controlling women in general.

I could be reading her wrong, and stand open to correction from both you and her. But it seems to me that the raw facts of biology place quite a bit of responsibility upon the woman anyway. Medicine has advanced enough that the focus of birth control remaining the woman's responsibility seems to say something about our society -- I mean, if society thought birth control was that important, would there not be more emphasis on male responsibility?

In short, it's not women having access to birth control and abortion that creates the conditions for "woman control", but rather, that our society uses the fact that it is easier to regulate the dispensation of 360 ovula in a lifetime versus 300 million sperm cells per ejacula in order to maintain the status quo of gender relations. It is easier to develop a BC pill for women, and in a happy coincidence, that places more responsibility on women for pregnancy upon the women who already bear the majority of responsibility for such an event anyway. Meanwhile, research dollars towards male BC (apportioned by a largely male hierarchy) are hard to come by (both puns, like many pregnancies, happy accidents).

As I said, I could be reading either or both of you wrong. But my take is that abortion laws, and many other social practices, are a matter of the is/ought fallacy, run amok, regarding genders. Simply because women can have children doesn't mean that they are the ones who should be forced into the sole responsibility for birth control.

You're very good at sorting things out. I like that about you. Smile

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05-04-2016, 05:52 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(04-04-2016 06:00 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  So I think if guys can take a pill they'll be too confident, they wont use condoms and so STDs will rise

My thoughts exactly.

Sure, you can teach kids to use condoms to be safe from STDs, but what kid at 15 and 16 thinks about STDs? Maybe it's just me, but when I had sex as a teen, STDs didn't matter to me because we were all virgins.

I agree that boys would be too confident with a pill to think about condoms. They're probably more likely to use a condom if they have one more problem to avoid (pregnancy).

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05-04-2016, 06:07 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(05-04-2016 05:52 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  I agree that boys would be too confident with a pill to think about condoms. They're probably more likely to use a condom if they have one more problem to avoid (pregnancy).

Hmmm. Girls have to worry about pregnancy and hence take birth control. I can't see what's different about a guy taking birth control. If they're dumb enough to do it without a condom when they *are* on birth control then they're definitely dumb enough to impregnate someone. For myself if I had brats I'd encourage both genders to take birth control - provided it was safe and effective. STDs aren't so terrible anyway, apart from HIV I guess. Sure it burns when you pee, but it's the same as every other disease for most of 'em - you go to the doc, he giggles a bit and a few weeks later there's no problem. Compared to the risk of getting some girl pregnant... Ye hypothetical brat is gonna have a jolly old *drawerful* of condoms anyway. And condoms aren't super effective for preventing the spread of most STDs IIRC.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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05-04-2016, 06:12 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
I knew a guy that grew up in the neighborhood -- he got a girl pregnant in high school --- "She said she was on the pill" -- was his excuse.............

30 years later -- 5 mothers and 7 kids later -- he's living in Turkey (last I heard)- Working for Haliburton or some such -- because they're the only ones that pay enough to pay off all his back child support.......................

Watching that idiot taught me the value of condoms at a real early age.................

...

.......................................

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05-04-2016, 06:14 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
I don't see anything wrong with male birth control. Regulate the sperm!

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05-04-2016, 06:39 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(05-04-2016 05:52 AM)undergroundp Wrote:  
(04-04-2016 06:00 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  So I think if guys can take a pill they'll be too confident, they wont use condoms and so STDs will rise

My thoughts exactly.

Sure, you can teach kids to use condoms to be safe from STDs, but what kid at 15 and 16 thinks about STDs? Maybe it's just me, but when I had sex as a teen, STDs didn't matter to me because we were all virgins.

I agree that boys would be too confident with a pill to think about condoms. They're probably more likely to use a condom if they have one more problem to avoid (pregnancy).

Do you feel that way about females, that they aren't responsible about std's because they feel safe on the oill? Seems like you're saying males can't or won't act responsibly.

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05-04-2016, 10:28 AM
RE: Lets Try Sperm/Conception Control Instead
(05-04-2016 03:25 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  You're very good at sorting things out. I like that about you. Smile

lol, if it's someone else's stuff, I'm very good at sorting things, if it's my own life it's like sorting a cloud of spray-paint ... Big Grin

Thanks for the kind words, ma'am. Smile
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