Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
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04-06-2011, 12:00 AM
Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
So, how do you guys feel about assisted suicide? Should it be legal? Do you think people have the right to do that (from both the patient's and the doctor's perspective)?
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04-06-2011, 08:20 AM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Yes, I think so, under special circumstances. There must NEVER be any doubt that the person dying him- or herself wanted it done, and the ones helping must never be forced to do it. We do it to our suffering pets, why treat humans any less? I can't say what I'd feel and think or do if it was myself or someone I loved it was about, but principally I am for it.

"Never underestimate how narrow-minded, petty and stupid people can be". Mark Fulton, forum member
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04-06-2011, 11:28 AM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
I am 100% for assisted suicide to end inevitable suffering when an inevitable death is imminent. My opinion is that denying someone an assisted suicide is discrimination based on a disability. If someone were capable on taking their own life, they could, but if someone were disabled to the point of not being able, then we are basically saying, "well, since you can't do it, we're not going to allow it to happen."

Assisted suicide also prevents suffering in another way. Often, suicide is committed by people and they suffer a painful death. By using an approved method that ensures little or no suffering, we are helping people to do what they would do anyways, while preventing them for experiencing pain in their final moments.

At the end of the day, we are always trying to enforce peoples right to do what they want as long as it doesn't affect others negatively. I am perfectly within my rights to sit at home and poke myself in the eye with a pointy stick. I can do to my body what I want, so why should suicide be exempt?

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04-06-2011, 11:52 AM
 
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
(04-06-2011 12:00 AM)godofskeptic Wrote:  So, how do you guys feel about assisted suicide? Should it be legal?...

Absolutely, without a doubt and in all 50 States.

When a person is diagnosed incurable, the future that then awaits violates the creed of the Hippocratic Oath that Physicians often cite when claiming to be opposed to Physician Assisted Suicide Legislation.

(sic)"...I WILL FOLLOW that method of treatment which according to my ability and judgment, I consider for the benefit of my patient and abstain from whatever is harmful or mischievous."

I think once someone watches a terminally ill patient suffer treatment$ that only cause suffering and deplete an ailing body further, so as to sustain biological processes while doing nothing to forestall the inevitable, they realize how important choice is, for the one undergoing such trauma. Loss of dignity, pain, etc... And all the while, it's all for nothing.
If a person chooses not to endure that, they have every right to make the choice to die sooner than what would occur when their body shuts down from the disease or the trauma suffered from both the treatment(s) and disease.
If we have to work to make a living, we should have every right to choose our dying when there is nothing else to live for.
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04-06-2011, 10:44 PM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Thank you guys for your comments, but let me ask you guys a question.
As I was reading your comments I got the feeling that you guys think assisted suicide is appropriate if the person is suffering from an illness, but how about people who are young and healthy and want to do? lets say a 15-year-old boy, or a 18-year-old girl? How about those people?
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05-06-2011, 09:48 AM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
(04-06-2011 10:44 PM)godofskeptic Wrote:  Thank you guys for your comments, but let me ask you guys a question.
As I was reading your comments I got the feeling that you guys think assisted suicide is appropriate if the person is suffering from an illness, but how about people who are young and healthy and want to do? lets say a 15-year-old boy, or a 18-year-old girl? How about those people?

Why do they need to be assisted then(random question)? I don't like the idea of a healthy person(especially a youth) killing themselves. They'd have to have to a good motive. I am open to hearing possible reasons, but for the most part I would say no.

But for the sick and dying, I'm for it.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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05-06-2011, 09:56 AM
 
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
(04-06-2011 10:44 PM)godofskeptic Wrote:  Thank you guys for your comments, but let me ask you guys a question.
As I was reading your comments I got the feeling that you guys think assisted suicide is appropriate if the person is suffering from an illness, but how about people who are young and healthy and want to do? lets say a 15-year-old boy, or a 18-year-old girl? How about those people?
Firstly, there are guys here and then there are women. Wink

Now you're talking about suicide for the young and healthy juvenile .
No Physician on earth worth their salt, would comply with such a request from a minor age child, in my personal opinion and observation of Physicians I have known.

Why should they? When one is a minor troubles, like being ruthlessly bullied for being gay, atheist, gay and atheist, what others judge as ugly, etc... can seem insurmountable obstacles to surviving another minute.

And sure enough, in the midst of that conflict, it sounds like and is bullshit, when those not undergoing the verbal, emotional and physical abuse offer the platitude; "This will pass." "You'll get over it. It's just something that we have to endure, growing up." Or, "They'll stop and find someone else to move on to." As a solution for all that pains.

However, for a minor for any reason, to leave their life behind because of what's troubling it in the moment, even when that moment feels like it lasts a lifetime, is applying an infinite solution unto a finite problem.

If it's a matter of bullying, tell someone in authority. If a child is being bullied already, fear of being bullied for being a rat is just one more cause for deviant violent people to keep on swinging. It's that fear and intimidation that they impart that they hope precludes their victim from making it stop, by going to someone who has the authority to do so that is what permits that bully to keep on. Because no one shuts them down.
If you can suffer it, you can stop it.

If no one will help that bullies victim(s), such as parents, counselors at school, a trusted strong teacher, the Principle, or if religious a cleric of some order, go on the net to Google maps and do a search for martial arts training academies in their local area. Make a call, or stop by. Talk to the Sensei (trainer, teacher) and let them know what's going on. Ask permission to talk to the students after being given permission to watch that Sensei give a lesson. Ask them serious questions. Especially about injuries and techniques.

Many Martial Arts academies open, but it's important to know which one's are qualified to teach perspective students how to use their body as a weapon. If one comes upon a sadistic Sensei, one that's not all that versed in technique, they can suffer serious trauma. Ask the Sensei questions. Where were they trained? What's their specialty? What is their personal teaching philosophy when training youth or adults? If you feel it as a perspective student, ask it.

A person has every right to self defense. If no one assists the one being bullied, which would be rare now days given as much press as it gets for being so blatant and out of control in places, as when a victim does kill themselves in order to escape, that anyone who doesn't help, is complicit as a bully enabler too. If nothing else, teach even those folks a lesson and go to the final outlet for help. Call the police and tell them everything. Including the names of those adults approached for help, who refused. Bullies should be stopped. And those who don't stop them should be made to suffer the consequences. Bullying is a cycle. If it's not shut down, it grows generation to generation. Many bullies today have parent(s) who were bullies when they were kids. Or, often enough, were bullied. And so now their kids are determined not to suffer as their parent(s) did and in turn that parent is living vicariously through their child exacting payback on children today, who very well may be the children of their former foe(s).

Violence and intimidation do not have to be suffered! And if a child kills themselves to escape it, their bully/bullies won . And that will simply inspire that violent idiot to keep going. As if they've won a prize and they're then inspired to succeed in pursuit of acquiring another one. They're killers, because their dysfunctional personality caused their victims to seek death as an escape, instead of help as a means to survive. Bullies are miserable people. Live strong, happy, overcome their assaults, and beat the hell out of them without laying a hand on them. Succeed, and never look back. And that bully will be left behind to live their own misery, which beats them up from the inside every moment of every day. Smile
Bullies are the one's that must be stopped. NOT the life of their victim(s).

If a healthy minor wants to end their life for different reasons, absolutely not.
Death cures what can be fixed. A person's life is worth more than checking out because of the issues life brings them. Especially kids. Just starting out, with hopes and big dreams. No one and no thing should ever be given the power to stop those from being striven for and reached.
Talk to someone. Find someone that the child trusts and tell them how bad it is. Let it all out. Because if everything that that child is keeping in causes them to want to die to let it all go, then opening their mouth and giving it voice is a far simpler solution.

Certainly we know that if someone want's to take their own life, they'll do it. But that doesn't mean it's all going to end and everything will be better.

Those the suicide leave behind have to live with wondering what they could have done, to save the life they'll grieve being lost, forever. They'll become their own bullies. Beating themselves up, wondering how they failed. How'd they miss the signs? Why didn't that suicidal child feel they could talk to them, before making the ultimate sacrifice to what can otherwise be fixed? Those left behind, in the wake of a suicide, die a little inside. The pain, the suffering that comes from feeling somehow responsible for not being there to help, before the only help that was thought available was ending it all.

Whatever it may be that makes a healthy young person want to end the life they're just growing into so as to make it their own, it can feel overwhelming at times. Yet, that's why we're not living this life alone. There is no shame in asking for help. So that that child has someone walking beside them, to face what is. Walking behind them, to catch them when they fall. And even walking in front of them, to protect them from what comes.

We're all in this life together. We don't have to face any of it alone. And if a healthy child, a teenager, is contemplating ending the life they only get one chance at living, when that suicide attempt could go horribly wrong and cause them suffering the likes of which they've never known, then that young person who can think of a way to kill themselves, owe it to themselves to think of a way to save themselves from what seems worth giving their life to solve. Seek help, gain strength, and overcome.

The young person who knows they're worth more than ending who they are growing into, before they've ever had a real chance to thrive,will show a strength and sense of self-respect the likes of which will overcome any hurdle they may encounter in the future.

You live a life, when you're healthy and young. You don't leave a life, when you want to throw away those gifts because fixable things just seem too much right now.

And yes, this is a long post. And there's a reason for that.

In the time it took to read this far, at least 1 life was lost to an incurable disease the patient suffered unto the very end. If they were lucid, they were most probably resigned to their fate. If they were in bed, surrounded by friends and family, they were most probably left with visions of weeping and sadness and even pity, as the last thing they saw looking back at them. If they were medicated on pain pills, because otherwise the suffering from their disease would have been more than they could bear, they were numb and quite possibly asleep.

And then they died.
In the time it took to read this far, that person would have given anything for that much time if in those few moments they had a chance to feel healthy and young again.

None of us are alone in this. (HUGS)
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05-06-2011, 10:18 AM (This post was last modified: 05-06-2011 03:04 PM by Lilith Pride.)
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
By healthy do you mean mentally healthy? There are some kids with some serious mental issues from serious traumas. I actually do feel that a counselor with the ability to accept their desires as valid enough helps a lot. I was wanting death as a kid for some pretty serious reasons, and I attempted assisted suicide (causing someone else to kill you) like walking through traffic. I saw an accidental death as being easier on the family than a deliberate one, so I tried to deliberately die accidentally (I was 6 give me some leeway here on fallacies =p).

When I meet up with people who are young and suffer from experiences like (here's a bad one) their mother dying when they were born and their father hating them for it. They have every reason to be really upset and worried and unstable. Just dismissing their desire doesn't help as much as being understanding of their pain. I've never been someone who feels life has to be kept. I could never have actually cut myself, it's just not something I was able to do. The truth is though, that there is a lot of pain in the world. And while you seek to help someone find more happiness within living, I think it's better to accept that if they do decide to kill themselves that you accept it as their choice.

I'm an odd one, but i feel that the best way to handle a suicidal teenager is to be understanding, let them know they're not alone and that you can live in a world that isn't perfect. And let them know that if they do happen to do it. That's their choice and it's not so horribly bad. Give them a real choice in what they can do and they'll see more reason to try living.

There's not much reason to assist a teen in suicide, but a type of assistance in counseling that isn't as strictly against it is fine. There are kids though who spend all their life on the street scrapping for food just like middle aged people. If you want to make things more humane it would be better if after an evaluation they were helped to death rather than left to attempt it themselves. Suicide attempts are very damaging and often non-lethal.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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05-06-2011, 10:41 AM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
(04-06-2011 10:44 PM)godofskeptic Wrote:  Thank you guys for your comments, but let me ask you guys a question.
As I was reading your comments I got the feeling that you guys think assisted suicide is appropriate if the person is suffering from an illness, but how about people who are young and healthy and want to do? lets say a 15-year-old boy, or a 18-year-old girl? How about those people?

I saw this question coming, which is why I began my first post with, "I am 100% for assisted suicide to end inevitable suffering when an inevitable death is imminent."
To me, assisted suicide is reasonable, when death is imminent (going to happen relatively soon) and inevitable (death due to an incurable disease/injury that cannot be fixed that will cause death etc.) Lilith and GK both said it better than I could, but the jist of it is; just because something seems insurmountable doesn't mean it is. Only when an acceptable quality of life is definitely no longer attainable should we offer assisted suicide. In all other cases we should instead offer support and the best possible care for the person suffering, whether it be from physical or mental illness.

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05-06-2011, 06:56 PM
 
Thumbs Up RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
I'm all for euthanasia, but on two conditions:

- There has to be a psychiatric evaluation to determine the reason behind a person's wish to end his life and whether or not there is a reasonable chance of recovery to a life which is more appealing to the person. People can't be trusted with something big like their own life.
- It has to be done clean, decently and by a medical professional who is trained in facilitating a peaceful and painless departure. There is usually far more social strain to ones end than ones arrival, and no one wants a physician struggling with insufficient knowledge trying to effect a person's passing.

Of course this exposes a conflict. On one hand we don't want people to end their lives when they have a decent chance of getting back on track to leading a naturally healthy and fulfilling life. But if the process of determining whether or not that is a positive possibility becomes too much of an obstacle, people might resort to taking matters into their own hands, which is messy, indecent and (so) harms society.

Generally I think it isn't very hard to decide for most cases which would apply for euthanasia, they're either obviously in need of help (mental health), or are obviously done suffering (no chance of recovery), or have simply fulfilled 'life' and aren't keen on waiting for deterioration to set in.

People shouldn't be forced to suffer before they 'get to die', they should have the right to depart when their life is done or when they're likely never to recover to a decent standard of living. And I can say this because I think a 'fulfilled life', 'reasonable chance of recovery' and a 'decent standard of living' are not subjective issues but can be established objectively, looking at the human psyche and all that encompasses our natural lives.
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