Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
05-06-2011, 07:37 PM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
I am 100 % for assisted suicide when it comes to the ill. No matter the age as long as it is terminal or agonizing. I also think suicide should be legal Which in most provinces in Canada it is not oddly enough. But suicide definitely should not be assisted unless it is for medical reasons. I believe we as a people have no right to tell people who don`t want to live that they have to, or even should. I would hope however that anyone contemplating suicide would talk about it to someone who they trust first. It may just be the current thought, and not one that would be life long. I read somewhere that the majority of Atheists are pro assisted suicide, and if not for the religious it would already be legal everywhere and not just in enlightened countries.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
05-06-2011, 07:42 PM
 
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Very often Christians will claim they're against assisted suicide because it's like unto playing god. And that's simply not permitted.
Whereas, they fail to realize if their god was omni-benevolent, the need for assisted suicide to escape the ravages of long suffering incurable diseases would not be an issue. Ergo, if god was playing god first, cancer and other terminal illness and the suffering and agony that accompany such diagnosis, would not exist.
Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 04:25 AM
 
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
(05-06-2011 07:42 PM)GassyKitten Wrote:  Very often Christians will claim they're against assisted suicide because it's like unto playing god. And that's simply not permitted.
Whereas, they fail to realize if their god was omni-benevolent, the need for assisted suicide to escape the ravages of long suffering incurable diseases would not be an issue. Ergo, if god was playing god first, cancer and other terminal illness and the suffering and agony that accompany such diagnosis, would not exist.
The same argument might even suggest that God hates painkillers.

We are very much in control of our health and consequently our death, where the line between smoking two packs of cigarettes a day and requesting an early leave is drawn, is beyond me. Of course living an unhealthy lifestyle is a more passive approach to causing ones own death than euthanasia, but I think the responsibility is the same. I wonder what God thinks about this... Ratzinger?
Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 08:48 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2011 09:01 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
I think most of you are missing the reasoning for making suicide illegal - it is so the person who attempts suicide can be placed in psychiatric evaluation, which is key to the reasoning for assisted suicide. And we cannot have people jumping out windows or smashing their cars into whatnot without cost relief for the innocent taxpayers. That being understood we can reason the level of assisted suicide, it will require more than just one physician to determine the patient's right to end his life - death panels. There are all kinds of legalities that will have to be confirmed, and I am sure there are lawyers who have constructed some foundational outlines for such legislation. And just try to imagine how complicated that is to understand - who are you going to trust?

I think this issue is apart of the atheist political party agenda - how's that going by the way?
(05-06-2011 07:37 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I read somewhere that the majority of Atheists are pro assisted suicide, and if not for the religious it would already be legal everywhere and not just in enlightened countries.
Oh, please tell us - which countries are enlightened?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 10:55 AM
 
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Diederick, I don't believe there is a line when it comes to the rightful choice of euthanasia. If a person is suffering and diagnosed incurable as medical science confirms there is nothing their art can do to assuage the cause of that pain and cure what ails the terminal patient, then that patient has every right to die if they so choose.

Lifestyle is choice. Two packs of cigarettes a day being what causes stage 4 lung cancer and thus an incurable diagnosis, shouldn't matter at all as to whether or not quality of life is weighted in the balance between choice when healthy and choice when determined by professionals to be one of the walking dead.

The religious like to claim it's playing god and no one has a right to do that. While they also pipe up and claim people choose to go to hell, because life is a matter of free will.
Consistency, is the issue there. Because as they claim those factors are part of life and absolute they then deny one has the right to choose to die, through exercise of their free will.
As for the matter of playing god, suffering non-Hodgkins lymphoma, which is incurable, is an example of god playing sadistic god and abdicating any element previously afforded that what is deemed omnibenevolent. Especially when that patient is religious and prays as they suffer through radiation and chemo, that they'll be healed. Or that the pain will abate.
When nothing answers that pleading, humans have every right to play god and correct his deficit in the lack of mercy that must be an element of any higher power first deemed universally kind.

When god fails at playing god humans have every right to show him how it's done.


As for what god would think of Ratzinger, I've said before and this Pope does nothing to dissuade the opinion. He's an atheist. His whole cult of higher powers in expensive frocks are too. They know there is no such thing as god and that's why every element of the Roman Catholic faith is predicated upon the church and it's interests coming first. While perverts are enabled by Ratzinger's depraved indifference as he acts to cover up the Pedophilia in the ranks of clergy, rather than cleanse the church of child rapists in the name of Jesus love of children and in light of the warning the Bible affords as to what will happen to anyone who harms one of Christs innocent. As at the same time clerics and rotting saints are revered as the emissaries between the faithful and the powers of Heaven. It's all about the church. Which examples all those inside at the highest levels of power, know that's all there is. No god. Just Patriarchal authority commanding the largest population of believers/sheep on earth.

The Pope even has meetings with heads of State. Leaders of countries. He's believed to speak for god all mighty. And yet he's on the record having told his Bishops and Cardinals to hide the fact that low life priests were raping boys.

Ratzinger knows there's no god. He simply thinks people need to believe in something in order to survive this life. He proves his disbelief when he speaks as if god is a pervert too. So it's one or the other. God doesn't exist. Or he does, and he's a psychotic deviant who approves baby rape. It's all a matter of Ratzinger's promoting the image and likeness.
Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 11:17 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2011 11:21 AM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Why do you put so much more effort into begrudging theists' leadership then developing rational reasoning for the development of legislation that would provide for your perspective of the issue?

We know that the Church is faulty and erroneous, we here are all pretty much in alignment on that, but we have nothing developed as far as leading the ignorant and naive - quit the circle-jerking, and use that brilliant mind of yours and put together something that will encourage the people to recognize the truth. A rational political agenda that most people can understand is what they are looking for; something easy to understand - can't you do that?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 11:21 AM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
(06-06-2011 08:48 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  I think most of you are missing the reasoning for making suicide illegal - it is so the person who attempts suicide can be placed in psychiatric evaluation, which is key to the reasoning for assisted suicide. And we cannot have people jumping out windows or smashing their cars into whatnot without cost relief for the innocent taxpayers. That being understood we can reason the level of assisted suicide, it will require more than just one physician to determine the patient's right to end his life - death panels. There are all kinds of legalities that will have to be confirmed, and I am sure there are lawyers who have constructed some foundational outlines for such legislation. And just try to imagine how complicated that is to understand - who are you going to trust?

I think this issue is apart of the atheist political party agenda - how's that going by the way?
(05-06-2011 07:37 PM)lucradis Wrote:  I read somewhere that the majority of Atheists are pro assisted suicide, and if not for the religious it would already be legal everywhere and not just in enlightened countries.
Oh, please tell us - which countries are enlightened?

So far it looks like Germany strangely, Finland, Luxembourg, Denmark, Oregon, Switzerland, Belgium, Netherlands.... oh hell, just go here
http://www.assistedsuicide.org/suicide_laws.html

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 11:29 AM
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Trainwreck > Be aware, if you start trying to twist this into the same old bullshit debate about atheists needing to have a political agenda you are out of here. Everyone is tired of you turning threads into the same old shit. One of the few rules we have is no spamming, and I won't tolerate it from you anymore. Can the topic evolve into a different discussion? Yes. Will you be allowed to push it into your all to familiar debate? Absolutely not.

Consider yourself warned.

So many cats, so few good recipes.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 11:31 AM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2011 12:34 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
Quote:The only four places that today openly and legally, authorize active assistance in dying of patients, are:
Oregon (since l997, physician-assisted suicide only);
Switzerland (1941, physician and non-physician assisted suicide only);
Belgium (2002, permits 'euthanasia' but does not define the method;
Netherlands (voluntary euthanasia and physician-assisted suicide lawful since April 2002 but permitted by the courts since l984).

(06-06-2011 11:29 AM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Trainwreck > Be aware, if you start trying to twist this into the same old bullshit debate about atheists needing to have a political agenda you are out of here.
The thread is titled "controversial issue" - that is politics. And the argument put forth that most atheists are in favor of assisted suicide - you don't think that is politics???

The whole modern atheist movement is politics - it is time to awaken to that understanding. But to heed your warning I will commence a thread on the subject.
http://thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thre...l-movement


The opening post is politically, and not medically, oriented.
(04-06-2011 12:00 AM)godofskeptic Wrote:  So, how do you guys feel about assisted suicide? Should it be legal? Do you think people have the right to do that (from both the patient's and the doctor's perspective)?

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-06-2011, 06:07 PM
 
Wink RE: Lets talk about controversial issues: Assisted Suicide
GassyKitten, I was commenting on the notion that some theists think euthanasia is like playing God. The comparison between the passiveness of unhealthy lifestyles and taking a more direct and active approach to killing oneself, was to argue that we are in control of our lives and deaths and that they are the same responsibility or God-playing. One is simply more direct and thus confronting than the other, which really shouldn't matter but, as we all know, superficial appearance kind of does matter to a great many people. As for Ratzinger, he's supposed to have a direct line with God so he could answer my question, since I don't have His number...

Basically I was agreeing with you. Tongue
Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: