Letter from a Christian Citizen
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05-11-2013, 11:12 AM
Letter from a Christian Citizen
So I have not read "Letter to a Christian Nation " by Sam Harris and was on Amazon looking at reviews. I stumbled upon the counter book by that Wilson character "Letter from a Christian Citizen" I looked at some of the reviews and found this one quite interesting:

Wilson then asks how atheists could condemn slavery, considering their philosophy on the universe: "There is nothing wrong with it (slavery) based on your principles, where the universe is just time and chance acting on matter. What does it matter if the master matter acts on the slave matter? Who cares?" (p. 22)

Why is it hard to understand that someone does not need a God to be moral? I do not think any atheist would suggest that slavery does not matter because this is just the universe and time and chance acting.


I also saw this:

I suspect that those who call themselves "atheists" are not truly "atheists" at all. They believe that God exists - they just don't understand Him at all, and they basically hate His guts, so they reject Him. That would explain the anger.

So because my logical inquiry leads me to believe God does not exist that means I hate his (an entity I do not believe exists) guts, reject him and am angry about it? Does this hold try with all other entities I do not believe exist such as tooth fairies, the green people that hang out on the pots of gold or the creature from the black lagoon?

Could someone please make sense of this argument for me?
Huh
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05-11-2013, 11:20 AM
RE: Letter from a Christian Citizen
Usually what I say to the "you hate god argument" is not the standard (I'm not angry at Santa) because Christians have heard it so many times it's no longer effective.

Usually, I say, "what if I said that you only tell yourself we are angry because you are jealous at seeing that we can live perfectly happy, moral lives without wasting our time with restrictive dogma, sexual repression and tithing? Would you like it if I applied that blanket generalization to someone I've never met?"

Once I get them stumbling off their script, I tell them that it's true many atheists can be angry, but we aren't angry at god...we are angry about the people that lied to us when they told us this shit was true.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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05-11-2013, 11:54 AM
RE: Letter from a Christian Citizen
(05-11-2013 11:12 AM)J-Hova Wrote:  Wilson then asks how atheists could condemn slavery, considering their philosophy on the universe: "There is nothing wrong with it (slavery) based on your principles, where the universe is just time and chance acting on matter. What does it matter if the master matter acts on the slave matter? Who cares?" (p. 22)
Yeah, because one needs the 10 Commandments to tell us the wrongness of slaver... oh wait... Consider

(05-11-2013 11:12 AM)J-Hova Wrote:  I suspect that those who call themselves "atheists" are not truly "atheists" at all. They believe that God exists - they just don't understand Him at all, and they basically hate His guts, so they reject Him. That would explain the anger.
You can't misunderstand, hate, or reject that which does not exist. It's not rocket science here (but for some theists, it apparently may as well be Rolleyes ).

(05-11-2013 11:12 AM)J-Hova Wrote:  Could someone please make sense of this argument for me?
Huh
I would be glad to, but sense can't be made of nonsense. Tongue

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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05-11-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: Letter from a Christian Citizen
It doesn't surprise me that a christian would lie and make up things to make people outside of his faith appear in a negative light.
They've been doing that for a couple thousand years. Nothing new here.

He's arguing that his inaccurate definition of atheism is a bizarre way to look at the universe.
He's really saying that his own view of what he thinks is correct is bizarre.
I agree with him

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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05-11-2013, 03:39 PM
RE: Letter from a Christian Citizen
(05-11-2013 11:12 AM)J-Hova Wrote:  So I have not read "Letter to a Christian Nation " by Sam Harris and was on Amazon looking at reviews. I stumbled upon the counter book by that Wilson character "Letter from a Christian Citizen" I looked at some of the reviews and found this one quite interesting:

Wilson then asks how atheists could condemn slavery, considering their philosophy on the universe: "There is nothing wrong with it (slavery) based on your principles, where the universe is just time and chance acting on matter. What does it matter if the master matter acts on the slave matter? Who cares?" (p. 22)

Why is it hard to understand that someone does not need a God to be moral? I do not think any atheist would suggest that slavery does not matter because this is just the universe and time and chance acting.


I also saw this:

I suspect that those who call themselves "atheists" are not truly "atheists" at all. They believe that God exists - they just don't understand Him at all, and they basically hate His guts, so they reject Him. That would explain the anger.

So because my logical inquiry leads me to believe God does not exist that means I hate his (an entity I do not believe exists) guts, reject him and am angry about it? Does this hold try with all other entities I do not believe exist such as tooth fairies, the green people that hang out on the pots of gold or the creature from the black lagoon?

Could someone please make sense of this argument for me?
Huh

Yes, Wilson has a strong desire to own slaves. Unfortunately (for him), his God
does not allow him to.
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05-11-2013, 04:04 PM
RE: Letter from a Christian Citizen
Harris' books are among the least angry I've encountered from the recent canon of neo-atheism. He has a calm if remorseless tone and rarely indulges himself with sweeping claims or unnecessary invective.

Well except when it comes to Francis Collins. But then Collins is an arse.

Harris has (to my mind) a most satisfying literary style which is both scholarly and engaging. Even his polemical pieces are notable for their considered tone: Bring the Vatican to Justice is a good example.

He has a particular skill when it comes to revealing the obvious improbabilities of religious beliefs and I think it is this that so enrages his critics be they apologists or frothing fundy loons.

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I am not afraid to go out of it that way.
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