Leviticus only applies to the Levites
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24-06-2014, 03:32 PM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
(24-06-2014 03:29 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(24-06-2014 07:48 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, I'm used to various excuses as to why Christians don't have to follow the laws of the Old Testament. Some gems include Christ's death nullifying it (cuz reasons), Jesus saying Kosher eating laws no longer apply (what about mixed fabrics), or Jesus coming to fulfill the law (never mind that not one iota is supposed to change). Today, I heard a new excuse:

Leviticus only applies to the Levites.

If that's the case, wouldn't 1st and 2nd Corinthians only apply to Corinth and Galatians only apply to Galilee Galatia? I'm trying to get the guy to explain his stance in a way that's not special pleading, but he's currently saying that he's "not following me".

Has anyone else heard this excuse? Was it better explained?

strawman

No, it is a direct question based on their reasoning. But then you don't actually know what strawmen or non sequiturs or logical fallacies are because your entire argument is rife with them. So you just say that in the hopes that it will stand in loco argumentum.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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24-06-2014, 04:22 PM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
And the gospel of Bucky only applies to ..... oh wait,

.... never mind.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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24-06-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
Well, he did finally clarify. Leviticus in and of itself is applicable. Portions of it pertain just to the priests, and that's what he was getting at. His wording and his second explanation made it initially confusing.
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24-06-2014, 05:12 PM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
(24-06-2014 05:04 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Well, he did finally clarify. Leviticus in and of itself is applicable. Portions of it pertain just to the priests, and that's what he was getting at. His wording and his second explanation made it initially confusing.

+1
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25-06-2014, 12:40 AM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
(24-06-2014 07:48 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, I'm used to various excuses as to why Christians don't have to follow the laws of the Old Testament. Some gems include Christ's death nullifying it (cuz reasons), Jesus saying Kosher eating laws no longer apply (what about mixed fabrics), or Jesus coming to fulfill the law (never mind that not one iota is supposed to change). Today, I heard a new excuse:

Leviticus only applies to the Levites.

If that's the case, wouldn't 1st and 2nd Corinthians only apply to Corinth and Galatians only apply to Galilee Galatia? I'm trying to get the guy to explain his stance in a way that's not special pleading, but he's currently saying that he's "not following me".

Has anyone else heard this excuse? Was it better explained?

If I remember right, that is correct: "Leviticus only applies to the Levites (priests)." The Levites were one of the twelve tribes of Israel. But they were also singularly very special in their purpose: they were the priesthood. They had very special rules to follow that did not apply to any of the other tribes: temple rituals, ablutions, sacrifices in the temple, the priests only could enter into the holy of holiest places . . ..

It is believed that the Christ "fulfilled" the old covenant (all the old laws) and ordained a new covenant (new Testament) with his birth, life, and death: and "a new commandment I give unto you . . . ." The new commandment, is the fulfillment of the 10.

In short, that's what I remember from years spent studying the crap in order to . . . Big Grin

"If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." Orson Welles
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25-06-2014, 08:36 AM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
(25-06-2014 12:40 AM)Dee Wrote:  
(24-06-2014 07:48 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  So, I'm used to various excuses as to why Christians don't have to follow the laws of the Old Testament. Some gems include Christ's death nullifying it (cuz reasons), Jesus saying Kosher eating laws no longer apply (what about mixed fabrics), or Jesus coming to fulfill the law (never mind that not one iota is supposed to change). Today, I heard a new excuse:

Leviticus only applies to the Levites.

If that's the case, wouldn't 1st and 2nd Corinthians only apply to Corinth and Galatians only apply to Galilee Galatia? I'm trying to get the guy to explain his stance in a way that's not special pleading, but he's currently saying that he's "not following me".

Has anyone else heard this excuse? Was it better explained?

If I remember right, that is correct: "Leviticus only applies to the Levites (priests)." The Levites were one of the twelve tribes of Israel. But they were also singularly very special in their purpose: they were the priesthood. They had very special rules to follow that did not apply to any of the other tribes: temple rituals, ablutions, sacrifices in the temple, the priests only could enter into the holy of holiest places . . ..

It is believed that the Christ "fulfilled" the old covenant (all the old laws) and ordained a new covenant (new Testament) with his birth, life, and death: and "a new commandment I give unto you . . . ." The new commandment, is the fulfillment of the 10.

In short, that's what I remember from years spent studying the crap in order to . . . Big Grin

So this only applies to priests?

Leviticus 20:13: If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood [shall be] upon them.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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25-06-2014, 08:38 AM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
(25-06-2014 12:40 AM)Dee Wrote:  It is believed that the Christ "fulfilled" the old covenant (all the old laws) and ordained a new covenant (new Testament) with his birth, life, and death: and "a new commandment I give unto you . . . ." The new commandment, is the fulfillment of the 10.

Heh. Which ten? The Bible never actually gives ten commandments; it's just we were promised ten, so Christians had to take the twenty-or-so commandments handed out in Exodus and Deuteronomy (they're different!) and condense them down into ten. Bonus points: Catholics and Lutherans use a slightly different list than other Protestants.
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25-06-2014, 11:02 AM (This post was last modified: 25-06-2014 11:17 AM by Michael_Tadlock.)
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
I don't think you can make a very good argument that levitcus only applies to the levites. Some portions do appear to be addressed specifically to priests, and the priests where chosen among the levites. The majority of the book is address to the all the Isrealites, and, by extension, to all christians.

Quote:"Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished" (Matthew 5:17-18).

Now jesus did intend to change or adapt the laws. As a christian if jesus said it then it takes precedence over all other scripture. However this passage makes it clear that the old laws of the old testament still apply, at least until jesus says otherwise. It is leviticus where it says homesexuality is a sin, which is belief common to all christians, and the passages the catholic church uses as ammunition against contraception comes from genesis and deuteronomy.

In the first verse of leviticus god addresses the people of Israel, not the levites:

Quote:1 The Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting. He said, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘When anyone among you brings an offering to the Lord, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.(LEV 1:1 NIT)

This verse from chapter two is addressed to "anyone", as the language used in the NIT

Quote:2 “‘When anyone brings a grain offering to the Lord, their offering is to be of the finest flour. They are to pour olive oil on it, put incense on it. (LEV 2:1 NIT)

In chapter 4, verse 1 god again address the Israelites, not the tribe of levite. Then God specifically addresses the priest for a particular kind of sin and sin offering. There are distinctions made in the text, but it would be incorrect to say that the entire book of leviticus applies only to the levites.

Quote:4 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the Lord’s commands—3 “‘If the anointed priest sins, bringing guilt on the people, he must bring to the Lord a young bull without defect as a sin offering[a] for the sin he has committed.(LEV 4:1-3 NIT)

That particular chapter goes on to address sins of the community, sins of leaders, and sins of individuals. Yet more proof that leviticus is not just for the levite priests.

Chapters 1-9 deal with various sin offerings and animal sacrifices. In chapter ten Moses calls Aaron and his sons to speak with them about proper conduct for them as priests. To summarize, he tells them not to drink fermented drinks in the tent of the lord and to eat grain offerings by the altar, among other things. No classic leviticus laws in this chapter.

In the next chapter Moses is once again addressing all the peoples of Israel:

Quote:11 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud. (LEV 11:1-3 NIT)

This chapter includes the bit about not eating animals with cloven hooves or creatures that move along the ground, ect. One of the last verses in this chapter is:

Quote:44 I am the Lord your God; consecrate yourselves and be holy, because I am holy. Do not make yourselves unclean by any creature that moves along the ground. 45 I am the Lord, who brought you up out of Egypt to be your God; therefore be holy, because I am holy.(LEV 11:44-45 NIT)

God brought all the peoples of Israel out of Egypt, so this reaffirms, I think, that god is addressing everyone.

Chapter 12 begins with rules for woman, and how they are to become ceremonly clean after child birth. Levite priests could not be woman, so these rules seem odd in context of that interpretation:

Quote:12 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Say to the Israelites: ‘A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding. (LEV 12:1-5 NIT)

Chapter 13 begins this way:

Quote:13 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, 2 “When anyone has a swelling or a rash or a shiny spot on their skin that may be a defiling skin disease,[a] they must be brought to Aaron the priest or to one of his sons who is a priest. (LEV 13:1-2 NIT)

This is odd language to use if it [b]only applies to other levite priests. This would be like saying "Tell everyone (who is a priest) that if you are get a sore go to ( a priest) and the priest shall examine (the other priest)". Makes more sense that this applies to everyone, just like pretty much the whole book of leviticus likewise applies to all the peoples of Israel.

Chapters 14 and 15 have to do with mold and discharges and other unpleasant business. It uses much the same language and the process of becoming clean is very similar to that of chapter 13. Chapter 16 gives a specific sin offering duty to Aaron and his sons, which would clearly apply to only the priests of Israel, but it doesn't mention any famous leviticus laws.

From chapter 17, this is the first time leviticus mentions foreigners. If leviticus gives rules for foreigners living amongst the people then there is no way those passages could apply to priests

Quote:8 “Say to them: ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who offers a burnt offering or sacrifice 9 and does not bring it to the entrance to the tent of meeting to sacrifice it to the Lord must be cut off from the people of Israel. (LEV 17:8-9 NIT)

Chapter 18 deals with unlawful sex. It mostly forbids incest and sex with in laws. It begins with god addressing all the peoples of Israel. Nothing in this particular chapter I think christians would object too.

Chapter 19 has the law "do not wear clothing woven of two different kinds of fabric" verse atheists love to quote. You tell me if this only applies to the levite priests or not.

Quote:19 The Lord said to Moses, 2 “Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: ‘Be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy....“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.

“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.

“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material. (LEV 19:1-2,8-9 NIT)

That chapter is actually rich with verses that christians do not follow, such as do not get tattoos and do not cut your hair or beard.

Chapter 20 deals with more unlawful sex. This chapter forbids homosexuality, and it also forbids sex with a woman on her period and other nonsense. This is also the chapter that says you must stone witches. It begins with god addressing all the peoples of Israel, just like most chapters in the book of leviticus.

Chapter 21 is titles "rules for priests" and it clearly only applies to priests. It has rules like if your daughter is a prostitute burn her in fire, you must marry a virgin, ect. It deals with rules about how the woman in their family must behave and how they must make themselves clean before god.

Chapter 22 is an extension of chapter 21 with more rules. Chapter 23 deals with festivals. By chapter 24 god is addressing all the peoples of Israel again.

Chapter 24 says to put blasphemers to death.

Chapter 25 is about holidays.

Chapter 26 has to do with gods reward/punishment for obedience. There is one verse of interest here

Quote:3 “‘If you follow my decrees and are careful to obey my commands, 4 I will send you rain in its season, and the ground will yield its crops and the trees their fruit. 5 Your threshing will continue until grape harvest and the grape harvest will continue until planting, and you will eat all the food you want and live in safety in your land. (LEV 26:2-5 NIT)

The peoples of the tribe of Levi were forbidden from owning lands or inheriting lands. This doesn't make sense if it is addressed to levite priests. They would have no crops to harvest.

Chapter 27 deals with priests deciding if grain offerings and animal offerings are good enough. Then leviticus ends.

To summarize, most chapters of the leviticus being something like this:

Quote:The Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the tent of meeting. He said, 2 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them:

There are a few chapters that address the priests of Aaron but they do not include the most dogmatic and backwards laws in leviticus. When it comes to rules like don't tolerate witches and don't wear clothing woven of two types of fabric and don't trim your beard or get tattoos, ect there is no corresponding verse in the new testament that trumps it. So all christians, except maybe those Amish guys, are doing christianity wrong. Cherry picking right?

There is no reasonable interpretation of leviticus that concludes that the rules there in only apply to levite priests.
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25-06-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
Irrelevant. God commanded the laws so it does not matter who it "applies" to. The laws are immoral and disgusting and shows his character.

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25-06-2014, 06:04 PM
RE: Leviticus only applies to the Levites
(24-06-2014 11:01 AM)Impulse Wrote:  I never heard that one, but I did find "he's 'not following me'" amusing. Laugh out load

Hmm, so Christianity only applies to Christians then. Sounds legit. Thumbsup

So, what? Only Christians have souls then? God's and Jesus Laws only pertain to them?

If this is so then I will support this fully! It means that if we can just get Christians to stop trying to convert people and believe this statement above. Then 70% of the worlds religion problems go away!


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