Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
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27-12-2015, 04:08 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 03:54 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  I'm a former Christian Atheist ....

I think I might still be one. Blush

#sigh
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27-12-2015, 04:13 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 04:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 03:54 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  I'm a former Christian Atheist ....

I think I might still be one. Blush

Cool! So what?

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27-12-2015, 04:18 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 04:13 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 04:08 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I think I might still be one. Blush

Cool! So what?

Nothing much.

#sigh
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27-12-2015, 04:30 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
Your brother sounds like a fucking moron. Treat him as such.

Every family seems to have one.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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27-12-2015, 05:21 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 12:28 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  It was liberals who fought against slavery (and slavery was acceptable to the Christian God)

Dear lord. Talk about re-writing history. The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress. Read:

"The Democrats controlled the national government 1852-60. Presidents Pierce and Buchanan were friendly to Southern interests. In the North, the newly formed anti-slavery Republican Party came to power... The conservative Southern Democrats, reflecting the views of the late John C. Calhoun, insisted slavery was national." Also "The Radical Republicans ... strongly opposed slavery during the war and after the war distrusted ex-Confederates, demanding harsh policies for the former rebels, and emphasizing civil rights and voting rights for the "freedmen" (recently freed slaves). They were opposed during the War ... by the pro-slavery Democratic Party."

(27-12-2015 12:28 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  So how is it that liberalism is bad when liberalism challenges the socially untenable status quo that's being championed by conservatives?

Classic liberalism does, yes. But the people who today call themselves 'liberals' are just conservatives who like to spend other people's money. They're still pro-war, and anti-rights. Gay marriage is an example. Democrats even more than Republicans insist the government has the right to decide who can and cannot get married and requires a government-issued license. There are still families that are denied the right to marry because of this (like polygamy). A true, classic liberal, has always argued that any consenting adults have the right to sign a contract to share ownership of propriety, and parenting rights, etc.

The US democrats have turned liberal into a dirty word because at one point it meant people were free to choose (liberal from the latin word liber meaning free), and now they use the word to mean the exact opposite: a repressive state that micro-manages every aspect of one's life, denies people the freedom to choose, and uses violence to achieve all its means.
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27-12-2015, 05:31 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 05:21 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 12:28 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  It was liberals who fought against slavery (and slavery was acceptable to the Christian God)

Dear lord. Talk about re-writing history. The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress. Read:

You moron, the Republicans of that time were the liberals. You are the one who does not know his history.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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27-12-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 05:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  You moron, the Republicans of that time were the liberals. You are the one who does not know his history.

You can't keep changing the definition of words depending on context, like you did with socialism.

If you use "liberal" in the original true sense that one is free to make choices without coercion, then yes, Republicans were liberals, and today libertarians are liberals and both Dems and Reps are statists.

But generally when you use the word "liberal" you define it to mean the exact opposite: a state that uses force to tell everyone what they can do. In which case Republicans back then were the OPPOSITE of liberal, and yes Democrats have always been "liberal".

So pick one definition of liberal and stick to it so we're not running in circles. This is what's frustrating about the left. They take libertarian words but use them to mean the exact opposite. They'll say they are "pro-choice", but note what happens when you ask them how you feel about women making "bad" choices when it comes to their body, and you'll see they're as "anti-choice" as the GOP. "Social contract" means, like any valid contract, one that is entered into voluntarily, where one has the choice of legal systems he willing subjects himself to. But dems re-purpose the word and say it applies to non-voluntary coercion (like in my case, moving out of the US to escape and they hunt you down no matter where you go).
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27-12-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 05:55 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 05:31 PM)Chas Wrote:  You moron, the Republicans of that time were the liberals. You are the one who does not know his history.

You can't keep changing the definition of words depending on context, like you did with socialism.

If you use "liberal" in the original true sense that one is free to make choices without coercion, then yes, Republicans were liberals, and today libertarians are liberals and both Dems and Reps are statists.

But generally when you use the word "liberal" you define it to mean the exact opposite: a state that uses force to tell everyone what they can do. In which case Republicans back then were the OPPOSITE of liberal, and yes Democrats have always been "liberal".

So pick one definition of liberal and stick to it so we're not running in circles. This is what's frustrating about the left. They take libertarian words but use them to mean the exact opposite. They'll say they are "pro-choice", but note what happens when you ask them how you feel about women making "bad" choices when it comes to their body, and you'll see they're as "anti-choice" as the GOP. "Social contract" means, like any valid contract, one that is entered into voluntarily, where one has the choice of legal systems he willing subjects himself to. But dems re-purpose the word and say it applies to non-voluntary coercion (like in my case, moving out of the US to escape and they hunt you down no matter where you go).

Fuck off. Stop telling me what I mean or believe. You are a presumptuous ass.

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27-12-2015, 06:18 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 05:58 PM)Chas Wrote:  Fuck off. Stop telling me what I mean or believe. You are a presumptuous ass.

Two years ago I told you the only thing you disagreed with libertarians on was that you wanted to use force & violence and we don't. You told me to stop telling you what you believe and be presumptuous. I challenged you to name just one policy point where your position wasn't exactly what I said it was. After 2 years you still can't name one, proving that I understood your belief system from the very beginning, and you still don't know what you believe.

Sure, I get cocky and presumptuous because you guys can't even try to defend your absurd position. Cjlr FINALLY stopped pretending he didn't understand what 'force' meant and conceded that the only thing dividing us is the use of force/violence, but says it's because without it one dies. So I challenged him to name anybody who died because of a lack of a violence, or a society that collapsed for not having enough violence. Since common sense says it's the opposite. He still can't muster a response.

I challenged EvolitionKills to answer 5 simple a or b questions, and predicted he would refuse. And he did. That's why I come across presumptuous and cocky.
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27-12-2015, 07:02 PM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(27-12-2015 05:21 PM)frankksj Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 12:28 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  It was liberals who fought against slavery (and slavery was acceptable to the Christian God)

Dear lord. Talk about re-writing history. The 13th Amendment, abolishing slavery, passed in 1865 with 100% Republican support but only 23% Democrat support in congress. Read:

"The Democrats controlled the national government 1852-60. Presidents Pierce and Buchanan were friendly to Southern interests. In the North, the newly formed anti-slavery Republican Party came to power... The conservative Southern Democrats, reflecting the views of the late John C. Calhoun, insisted slavery was national." Also "The Radical Republicans ... strongly opposed slavery during the war and after the war distrusted ex-Confederates, demanding harsh policies for the former rebels, and emphasizing civil rights and voting rights for the "freedmen" (recently freed slaves). They were opposed during the War ... by the pro-slavery Democratic Party."

(27-12-2015 12:28 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  So how is it that liberalism is bad when liberalism challenges the socially untenable status quo that's being championed by conservatives?

Classic liberalism does, yes. But the people who today call themselves 'liberals' are just conservatives who like to spend other people's money. They're still pro-war, and anti-rights. Gay marriage is an example. Democrats even more than Republicans insist the government has the right to decide who can and cannot get married and requires a government-issued license. There are still families that are denied the right to marry because of this (like polygamy). A true, classic liberal, has always argued that any consenting adults have the right to sign a contract to share ownership of propriety, and parenting rights, etc.

The US democrats have turned liberal into a dirty word because at one point it meant people were free to choose (liberal from the latin word liber meaning free), and now they use the word to mean the exact opposite: a repressive state that micro-manages every aspect of one's life, denies people the freedom to choose, and uses violence to achieve all its means.
What is wrong with people? ??

Liberal does not equal Democrat. Conservative doesn't equal republican.

These aren't some directly interchangeable terms that for some reason people want to bicker about with.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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