Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
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28-12-2015, 03:03 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2015 08:56 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 02:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I agree EK. But can you think of such a nation as I mentioned? I am wracking my tired drug infused brain.


In a theoretical sense? If you were to take Libertarian ideals and precepts to their most absurd, extreme, and logical conclusion?


Uh, Mad Max? A world filled with anarcho-capitalist warlord unions hoarding arbitrary metals?


If you take the Libertarian ideals and let them play out on an island, you can (without contradiction or violation of their ideals) arrive at an absolute hereditary monarchy. You can literally get the United Kingdom out of Libertarian policies playing out on a secluded island.


That being said, that's an extreme level of personal freedom; not at all practical or advocated for by 'classic liberals' of the Enlightenment. Of those principals, most of us can probably agree with, and they result in many of the different forms of government seen in Europe and the foundation of the United States. But it's hard to parse that out with the way Franky rails against 'the left' as a monolithic force of evil and coercion that would make Darth Vader blush.

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28-12-2015, 03:06 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 02:52 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(27-12-2015 04:00 PM)Sylia Gray Wrote:  I think you took my original thread out of context.

I know the Republican party was more liberal in the past but I never brought up political parties in the original thread. And yes I do think it would think it would be better for American democracy if it wasn't just dominated by 2 political parties but actually many political parties each with equal representation. But going back to the original thread, I was not referring to republicans and democrats. Just liberals and conservatives.

No, I didn't.

You're still thinking of people as "digital" rather than "analog".

My point still holds -- you're assuming that there is really a majority of people that can be classified as "either/or". Liberal/conservative.

Damned few people fit the mold of political perception.

Take me - I'm in favor of abortion on demand. I'm in favor of equal rights for the LGBT folks. I'm a heavily armed atheist, who is anti-union - and anti-big government......

Which am I? Conservative, or liberal?????

.......

Neither.... I'm me.

Damn right, and we knock heads on certain issues and emphatically agree on others. People are complicated. Thumbsup

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28-12-2015, 03:10 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 02:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I agree EK. But can you think of such a nation as I mentioned? I am wracking my tired drug infused brain.


In a theoretical sense? If you were to take Libertarian ideal to their logical, and most absurd, extreme and logical conclusion?


Uh, Mad Max? A world filled with anarcho-capitalist warlord unions hoarding arbitrary metals?


If you take the Libertarian ideals and let them play out on an island, you can (without contradiction or violation of their ideals) arrive at a hereditary monarchy. You can literally get the United Kingdom out of Libertarian policies playing out on a secluded island.


That being said, that's an extreme level of personal freedom; not at all practical or advocated for by 'classic liberals' of the Enlightenment. Of those principals, most of us can probably agree with, and they result in many of the different forms of government seen in Europe and the foundation of the United States. But it's hard to parse that out with the way Franky rails against 'the left' as a monolithic force of evil and coercion that would make Darth Vader blush.


Agreed. We'd end up with something like feudal Japan which in itself was a bunch of different governments controlling areas as in China or the Korean three kingdoms.

Yeah, Frank does not know of what he speaks. He reminds me of Lord Dick Head who attended far right classes.

These people have very little understanding of world history and remind me of American isolationists. Yeah that was cool, until U boats sank merchant ships, Japan attacked America and Hitler declared war on the US. Big Grin

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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28-12-2015, 03:12 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 02:50 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I agree EK. But can you think of such a nation as I mentioned? I am wracking my tired drug infused brain.


In a theoretical sense? If you were to take Libertarian ideal to their logical, and most absurd, extreme and logical conclusion?


Uh, Mad Max? A world filled with anarcho-capitalist warlord unions hoarding arbitrary metals?


If you take the Libertarian ideals and let them play out on an island, you can (without contradiction or violation of their ideals) arrive at a hereditary monarchy. You can literally get the United Kingdom out of Libertarian policies playing out on a secluded island.


That being said, that's an extreme level of personal freedom; not at all practical or advocated for by 'classic liberals' of the Enlightenment. Of those principals, most of us can probably agree with, and they result in many of the different forms of government seen in Europe and the foundation of the United States. But it's hard to parse that out with the way Franky rails against 'the left' as a monolithic force of evil and coercion that would make Darth Vader blush.

I've got a good friend that says that given the choice between a nanny state government or "Mad Max" -- he'd rather take the post apocalyptic route......

.....

I dunno. I doubt you'd be able to get a good pastrami sandwich ---- but I'll bet it wouldn't be boring.....................

.......................................

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28-12-2015, 03:14 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:12 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 03:03 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  In a theoretical sense? If you were to take Libertarian ideal to their logical, and most absurd, extreme and logical conclusion?


Uh, Mad Max? A world filled with anarcho-capitalist warlord unions hoarding arbitrary metals?


If you take the Libertarian ideals and let them play out on an island, you can (without contradiction or violation of their ideals) arrive at a hereditary monarchy. You can literally get the United Kingdom out of Libertarian policies playing out on a secluded island.


That being said, that's an extreme level of personal freedom; not at all practical or advocated for by 'classic liberals' of the Enlightenment. Of those principals, most of us can probably agree with, and they result in many of the different forms of government seen in Europe and the foundation of the United States. But it's hard to parse that out with the way Franky rails against 'the left' as a monolithic force of evil and coercion that would make Darth Vader blush.

I've got a good friend that says that given the choice between a nanny state government or "Mad Max" -- he'd rather take the post apocalyptic route......

.....

I dunno. I doubt you'd be able to get a good pastrami sandwich ---- but I'll bet it wouldn't be boring.....................


We already had it. It's in the past. We have since evolved from it.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-12-2015, 03:15 AM (This post was last modified: 28-12-2015 05:03 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  These people have very little understanding of world history and remind me of American isolationists. Yeah that was cool, until U boats sank merchant ships, Japan attacked America and Hitler declared war on the US. Big Grin

To be fair, we could stand to be a hell of a lot more isolationist than we are now. I'd rather be spending our treasure on butter instead of guns, or on universal healthcare instead of blowing up brown people half way across the planet.

But would fiat deregulation solve all of our problem at home and abroad? No.

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28-12-2015, 03:19 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:15 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(28-12-2015 03:10 AM)Banjo Wrote:  These people have very little understanding of world history and remind me of American isolationists. Yeah that was cool, until U boats sank merchant ships, Japan attacked America and Hitler declared war on the US. Big Grin

To be fair, we could stand to be a hell of a lot more isolationist than we are now. I'd rather be spending our treasure on butter instead of guns, or spending our money on universal healthcare instead of blowing up brown people half way across the planet.

But would fiat deregulation solve all of our problem at home and abroad? No.

Well it's all related to history. WWI is the key. Then later the Cold War and America and Russia installing regimes. The rest of us have to suffer the consequences.

Not forgetting the British empire in the Middle east and the Ottomans and the French and.....

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
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28-12-2015, 03:23 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:12 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  I've got a good friend that says that given the choice between a nanny state government or "Mad Max" -- he'd rather take the post apocalyptic route......

.....

I dunno. I doubt you'd be able to get a good pastrami sandwich ---- but I'll bet it wouldn't be boring.....................


The great thing about science fiction and fantasy is that they let us explore these concepts, across multiple variants at either extreme of the spectrum. From the anarchic end of the world as seen in Fallout, Mad Max, or The Postman; to the totalitarianism seen in Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Giver, Elysium, or Hunger Games. It can be argued that the United States is swinging too far towards totalitarianism, and I'd agree. But there are ways to solve that problem and swing things back the other way, and Franky's hyperbolic whining are nothing more than vapid flatulence in the wind; his opinions are uninformed and useless.

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28-12-2015, 03:45 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:23 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  The great thing about science fiction and fantasy is that they let us explore these concepts, across multiple variants at either extreme of the spectrum. From the anarchic end of the world as seen in Fallout, Mad Max, or The Postman; to the totalitarianism seen in Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Giver, Elysium, or Hunger Games. It can be argued that the United States is swinging too far towards totalitarianism, and I'd agree. But there are ways to solve that problem and swing things back the other way, and Franky's hyperbolic whining are nothing more than vapid flatulence in the wind; his opinions are uninformed and useless.

It is like I keep saying, Americans need to read Chalmers Johnson. You've had a republic for a similar time to Rome. The military is huge. Certain Patrician families fight over leading government. The idiot populace (some at least) think they can arm themselves against F22 Raptors and Drone strikes with automatic weapons.

Civil war, military dictatorship.

History repeats over and over and over....

Where or when will be America's Rubicon? You've already had one civil war.

“Even an empire cannot control the long-term effects of its policies. That is the essence of blowback.”
― Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, Second Edition: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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28-12-2015, 04:56 AM
RE: Liberalism is bad word for Christians... REALLY?
(28-12-2015 03:45 AM)Banjo Wrote:  It is like I keep saying, Americans need to read Chalmers Johnson. You've had a republic for a similar time to Rome. The military is huge. Certain Patrician families fight over leading government. The idiot populace (some at least) think they can arm themselves against F22 Raptors and Drone strikes with automatic weapons.

Civil war, military dictatorship.

History repeats over and over and over....

Where or when will be America's Rubicon? You've already had one civil war.

“Even an empire cannot control the long-term effects of its policies. That is the essence of blowback.”
― Chalmers Johnson, Blowback, Second Edition: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire


If people actually learned from history, we'd stop repeating it...

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