Lie and Cheat
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09-05-2013, 10:16 AM
Lie and Cheat
I won't go into the specifics as it isn't relevant and almost certainly isn't appropriate.

I have caught students cheating multiple times, and the knee-jerk reaction they all seem to have is to lie. I can understand the knee-jerk reaction and the honest student will come to their senses and own up to it. Honest is a choice word here because the students who own up to it are usually not bad kids, just desperate to pass the class by the skin of their teeth (without really trying). The kids that baffle me though, are the ones who know they have been caught and keep digging the hole deeper and deeper. What do I stand to gain from catching you cheating? How does your grade one way or the other affect me? Why would I lie? Who do you think the University is going to believe? The kid who would lie to save his own skin and get an undeserved grade, or the TA who is lying to...to...well...I can't think of a reason why the TA would lie. Maybe because they have a personal grudge against the student? But the times I have caught students cheating, it was either a student I did not know in a class I do not teach, or it was students I liked.

I'm baffled by the lies. The cheating I can reason out just fine, but the lies... Sad

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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09-05-2013, 10:27 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
Actually, I don't even get the cheating. First of all, you are studying this because you, yourself has chosen to, no one's forcing you. Secondly, what is the point of taking a course, if you're not going to learn anything from it and will just cheat. Thirdly, if you are too stupid to pass on your own merit... well, that's really embarrassing, isn't it, and maybe you should choose a different course.

And lastly, I've always found cheating to be beneath me. Even if there was no chance I'd get caught, I still wouldn't do it. Not because I wouldn't want to disappoint my teachers or anybody else, but because I'd be ashamed of myself.

Back at uni, I always used to find it hilarious, how I was the only one sitting in the first row of the huge lecture hall where we usually took our exams, with everyone else crammed at the back. At least my personal space was never invaded Big Grin

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09-05-2013, 10:35 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(09-05-2013 10:27 AM)Vera Wrote:  Actually, I don't even get the cheating. First of all, you are studying this because you, yourself has chosen to, no one's forcing you. Secondly, what is the point of taking a course, if you're not going to learn anything from it and will just cheat. Thirdly, if you are too stupid to pass on your own merit... well, that's really embarrassing, isn't it, and maybe you should choose a different course.

And lastly, I've always found cheating to be beneath me. Even if there was no chance I'd get caught, I still wouldn't do it. Not because I wouldn't want to disappoint my teachers or anybody else, but because I'd be ashamed of myself.

Back at uni, I always used to find it hilarious, how I was the only one sitting in the first row of the huge lecture hall where we usually took our exams, with everyone else crammed at the back. At least my personal space was never invaded Big Grin

Well, the American system is a little different. The cheaters I have caught could be said to have been forced to take the class as a core requirement. Meaning, they are not majors and the class isn't relevant to their studies but they still have to take it.

I understand why people cheat (not that I condone it) in such situations though. They don't want to be there. They don't like the material. They don't want to waste time studying for a class not in their major but don't want a bad grade.

They rationalize it, but that doesn't justify it and the shame would eat me alive. But I get the feeling that the ones who lie to my face about, have no shame.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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09-05-2013, 10:37 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
Fear.

Fear of failure and the consequences at home.

Fear of being caught and the consequences at home.

Fear of home.

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09-05-2013, 10:42 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(09-05-2013 10:37 AM)Dom Wrote:  Fear.

Fear of failure and the consequences at home.

Fear of being caught and the consequences at home.

Fear of home.

The fear of myself trumps that though. The fear of losing my ability to complete my degree would prevent me from cheating in the first place. And at some point, it has to become apparent that the lies being stacked one on top of the other will come crashing down.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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09-05-2013, 10:46 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(09-05-2013 10:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Well, the American system is a little different. The cheaters I have caught could be said to have been forced to take the class as a core requirement. Meaning, they are not majors and the class isn't relevant to their studies but they still have to take it.

I understand why people cheat (not that I condone it) in such situations though. They don't want to be there. They don't like the material. They don't want to waste time studying for a class not in their major but don't want a bad grade.

They rationalize it, but that doesn't justify it and the shame would eat me alive. But I get the feeling that the ones who lie to my face about, have no shame.

Well, I get that, but I've also had to take courses that had nothing to do with what I was actually studying and were just for the credits. Still didn't cheat. I think it just boils down to me being too stupid to pass an exam. And this is a thought I really really don't like. Dodgy

And cheating is simply humiliating. At least to me Big Grin

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09-05-2013, 10:47 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(09-05-2013 10:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 10:35 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Well, the American system is a little different. The cheaters I have caught could be said to have been forced to take the class as a core requirement. Meaning, they are not majors and the class isn't relevant to their studies but they still have to take it.

I understand why people cheat (not that I condone it) in such situations though. They don't want to be there. They don't like the material. They don't want to waste time studying for a class not in their major but don't want a bad grade.

They rationalize it, but that doesn't justify it and the shame would eat me alive. But I get the feeling that the ones who lie to my face about, have no shame.

Well, I get that, but I've also had to take courses that had nothing to do with what I was actually studying and were just for the credits. Still didn't cheat. I think it just boils down to me being too stupid to pass an exam. And this is a thought I really really don't like. Dodgy

And cheating is simply humiliating. At least to me Big Grin

I have made sure to make it even more embarrassing at times. You know, like calling them out in front of their peers.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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09-05-2013, 10:53 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
For a person who is dependent on their parents, fear of home trumps all other fears. It is vital.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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09-05-2013, 12:31 PM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(09-05-2013 10:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 10:46 AM)Vera Wrote:  Well, I get that, but I've also had to take courses that had nothing to do with what I was actually studying and were just for the credits. Still didn't cheat. I think it just boils down to me being too stupid to pass an exam. And this is a thought I really really don't like. Dodgy

And cheating is simply humiliating. At least to me Big Grin

I have made sure to make it even more embarrassing at times. You know, like calling them out in front of their peers.

How do you feel about embarrassing a person in your charge? Do you think it somehow benefits the person you're intimidating or is it simply for your own aggrandizement?

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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09-05-2013, 12:36 PM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(09-05-2013 12:31 PM)bbeljefe Wrote:  
(09-05-2013 10:47 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  I have made sure to make it even more embarrassing at times. You know, like calling them out in front of their peers.

How do you feel about embarrassing a person in your charge? Do you think it somehow benefits the person you're intimidating or is it simply for your own aggrandizement?

I do think it benefits the person being embarrassed. Perhaps not immediately but it will cause them to think on their actions. I don't do it at their expense. I don't stand them up with a dunce cap. I take away their exam and ask them to leave. If they want to argue in front of their peers, that is their choice. I don't force the embarrassment upon them, they do that of their own accord, I just oblige.

“Science is simply common sense at its best, that is, rigidly accurate in observation, and merciless to fallacy in logic.”
—Thomas Henry Huxley
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