Lie and Cheat
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11-05-2013, 04:59 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(10-05-2013 05:53 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  It's worse. It's giving up. It's admitting defeat. It's tipping over your King.
Indeed. It's admitting you are not good enough. And I don't care how little they care about a course - if I need an extra credit, I won't choose a physics class, for example. Know your limitations. Have seen the Dunning-Kruger effect in action way too many times.

As for the humiliation, it's not exactly the same, but it's the same principle: At my first job I got to learn my boss's password (needed it to login during a business trip or something). And so did one of my coworkers. Quite sometime later we discovered that my coworker had been using the password to snoop through my boss's mail, both professional and personal.

Now, it had never even crossed my mind to do something like this, but even if it had, I still wouldn't have done it. Not so much out of respect for my boss (I did respect her), but out of respect for myself. If you are not ashamed to do something, you have no right to be ashamed to admit you've done it. I just have no respect for liars and cheaters. Simple as that.

And before someone decides to go all armchair psychologist on me - no, I haven't been cheated on, nor did I grow up watching someone close to me being cheated on.

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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11-05-2013, 08:26 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
I am of the opinion that the predisposition to lie and cheat is genetically programmed.

Anecdotal evidence: Four siblings, two of us walk the straight and narrow, two of think nothing of "bending the rules". All brought up in the same household, so nurturing was nearly identical, thus leaving nature?

I have a strong aversion to cheating and lying. Why would nature design it that way? I have to think that it is a survival mechanism to help insure species survival. I can see how in many instances cheaters and liars could gain the upper hand in a dog-eat-dog world. On the other hand I can see how non cheaters and liars could gain the upper hand in a cooperative society.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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11-05-2013, 10:02 AM
RE: Lie and Cheat
(11-05-2013 08:26 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  I am of the opinion that the predisposition to lie and cheat is genetically programmed.

Anecdotal evidence: Four siblings, two of us walk the straight and narrow, two of think nothing of "bending the rules". All brought up in the same household, so nurturing was nearly identical, thus leaving nature?

I have a strong aversion to cheating and lying. Why would nature design it that way? I have to think that it is a survival mechanism to help insure species survival. I can see how in many instances cheaters and liars could gain the upper hand in a dog-eat-dog world. On the other hand I can see how non cheaters and liars could gain the upper hand in a cooperative society.

The four of you didn't spend the same time in the womb and weren't exposed to the same stresses of your pregnant mother. Also, unless you all went exactly the same places with the same people always and everywhere, you were exposed to differing influences during your critical developmental years. Lastly... there is almost always some remarkable difference in how the eldest and youngest siblings are treated and of course, smaller differences for those between, owing to the fact that most people 9parents) become more calm as they age.

And whether we like to admit it or not, parents are humans too and humans tend to treat different people differently, which means one sibling will often be favored over another and one sibling will often be the most neglected, etc.

My anecdotal evidence... My dad is a pretty peaceful, calm and rational man, especially considering when he was born, where he was raised and how much education he has. His brother is, frankly, a fucking violent, evil sadist whom I won't even go to lunch with because he often berates and yells at a waitress for the most minor mistake or delay.

Through questioning my parents and people who knew my father's family when he was younger I have learned that when Dad was born, his mother was in a pretty stable marriage and Dad was offered considerable love and attention as an infant. However, when she was pregnant with my uncle, the marriage had soured, her husband was abusing her and she became (in the late forties) a single woman looking for work and a place to live when my uncle was born. His infancy was spent in the care of another family member or a friend... whoever could watch him and Dad till their mother returned home from her job.

The rest of their childhoods can be said to have been as identical as anyone could ever expect.

Genes made their noses look different but they didn't make their personalities different. It was their environments in infancy that differed and the two mens personalities followed exactly what we would predict from a psychological perspective.

The beginning of wisdom is to call things by their right names. - Chinese Proverb
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