Life as ancestor simulation.
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11-10-2014, 03:29 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(11-10-2014 02:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 08:03 AM)DLJ Wrote:  This is actually almost my view (even though I'm only half way through Dennett's book) that consciousness is an App ... but that does not mean I don't have hardware on which to run it.

A self-programming simulation even. Big Grin

This paragraph reminded me of Borges. "As a second question, what about the guys (terrestrial or otherwise) who built the sim we're living in. Who's to say that they're not a sim? And if they are, what about the guys who built them?"

"With relief, with humiliation, with terror, he understood that he also was an illusion, that someone else was dreaming him."

It's simulated turtles all the way down?Shocking

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2014, 03:46 PM (This post was last modified: 11-10-2014 04:13 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(11-10-2014 03:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 02:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  A self-programming simulation even. Big Grin

This paragraph reminded me of Borges. "As a second question, what about the guys (terrestrial or otherwise) who built the sim we're living in. Who's to say that they're not a sim? And if they are, what about the guys who built them?"

"With relief, with humiliation, with terror, he understood that he also was an illusion, that someone else was dreaming him."

It's simulated turtles all the way down?Shocking





Love's the only thing that ever saved my life.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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11-10-2014, 05:17 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
With the transistor medium we are using today this kind of complex simulation is quite literally impossible. Just something worth noting. There is a limit to how many transistor you can put in a small place. Even if you group tens of millions of processing nodes, and never mind the complexity of the code (humanes have to write it remember, and at least on some terms, understand them), then you would be short quite a lot of computing power to make an accurate simulation of the world with the detail and complexity of sentient AI.

But carry on. Facts are boring.
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11-10-2014, 05:41 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(11-10-2014 05:17 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  With the transistor medium we are using today this kind of complex simulation is quite literally impossible. Just something worth noting. There is a limit to how many transistor you can put in a small place. Even if you group tens of millions of processing nodes, and never mind the complexity of the code (humanes have to write it remember, and at least on some terms, understand them), then you would be short quite a lot of computing power to make an accurate simulation of the world with the detail and complexity of sentient AI.

But carry on. Facts are boring.

Oooh, facts are scary and shit.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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11-10-2014, 06:48 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(11-10-2014 05:17 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  With the transistor medium we are using today this kind of complex simulation is quite literally impossible. Just something worth noting. There is a limit to how many transistor you can put in a small place. Even if you group tens of millions of processing nodes, and never mind the complexity of the code (humanes have to write it remember, and at least on some terms, understand them), then you would be short quite a lot of computing power to make an accurate simulation of the world with the detail and complexity of sentient AI.

But carry on. Facts are boring.

quantum computing?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-10-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(11-10-2014 06:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 05:17 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  With the transistor medium we are using today this kind of complex simulation is quite literally impossible. Just something worth noting. There is a limit to how many transistor you can put in a small place. Even if you group tens of millions of processing nodes, and never mind the complexity of the code (humanes have to write it remember, and at least on some terms, understand them), then you would be short quite a lot of computing power to make an accurate simulation of the world with the detail and complexity of sentient AI.

But carry on. Facts are boring.

quantum computing?

I did say "medium we are using today". Quantum computing would increase computing power density by basically infinite orders of magnitude, if the theories are right and we figure out how to make it work.
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12-10-2014, 06:04 AM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(11-10-2014 07:42 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 06:48 PM)Chas Wrote:  quantum computing?

I did say "medium we are using today". Quantum computing would increase computing power density by basically infinite orders of magnitude, if the theories are right and we figure out how to make it work.

However, what we are using has no bearing on whether or not we are a simulation.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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13-10-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(12-10-2014 06:04 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(11-10-2014 07:42 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I did say "medium we are using today". Quantum computing would increase computing power density by basically infinite orders of magnitude, if the theories are right and we figure out how to make it work.

However, what we are using has no bearing on whether or not we are a simulation.

No but part of the conjecture was "if we can make AI in the future, we could be the product of man made AI in the past". Anything is possible when you suspend all disbelief.
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14-10-2014, 10:39 AM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
I think the problem with creating simulations of the past is that whilst there may be a lot of factual historic data out there... without knowing EVERYTHING your simulation would just run on the parameters you input. You have no guarantees that the results given would be in any way accurate.

Do we live in a simulated reality???

or....

Do we live in something that can be compared to a simulated reality seeing as we are aware that we can produce Artificial intelligence and it is this awareness/knowledge that we use to "fill the gaps" with faith to the existential question of who we are and what we are doing here (just like religions do)

Everything's metaphorical.........

I feel so much, and yet I feel nothing.
I am a rock, I am the sky, the birds and the trees and everything beyond.
I am the wind, in the fields in which I roar. I am the water, in which I drown.
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14-10-2014, 04:14 PM
RE: Life as ancestor simulation.
(14-10-2014 10:39 AM)bemore Wrote:  I think the problem with creating simulations of the past is that whilst there may be a lot of factual historic data out there... without knowing EVERYTHING your simulation would just run on the parameters you input. You have no guarantees that the results given would be in any way accurate.

That's why you run it gazillions of times varying the input parameters and then apply mathematical voodoo, aka statistics, to the results. Big Grin

"Now if it gets this far, you can bet that the coders won't run merely one simulation. Someone who has Grand Theft Auto on their machine doesn't play it just once. They play it a gazillion times. In other words, if ancestor simulations are possible, then they will greatly outnumber real societies. Consequently, it's very probable that all humanity is in a simulation -- that we didn't get one of those rare lottery tickets that would make us a real society of real beings. Everything you do today (and have ever done) could be just an illusion coded up by some clever Klingon."

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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