Like it or not, God is immoral.
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12-09-2012, 11:07 AM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 10:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 09:57 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  The only way he can reconcile this belief is to state that god will do whatever it wants, to anyone, without explanation, while (of course) remaining just.

This is exactly what I've said.

This will probably sound like an insult and I don't mean it to be. You're offering a perfect demonstration of how a theist must accept the answer (god), regardless of how illogical the reasoning god's existence becomes. Science could illuminate every dark corner of the universe and theists will still find a crack to stuff god in. Is there any other area of your life, outside religion, where you are this accepting of an idea regardless of its source or contradiction with logic and the natural world?

Like I said, the mental gymnastics required to sustain the existence of a god must be very challenging.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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12-09-2012, 11:16 AM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 11:07 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 10:26 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  This is exactly what I've said.

This will probably sound like an insult and I don't mean it to be. You're offering a perfect demonstration of how a theist must accept the answer (god), regardless of how illogical the reasoning god's existence becomes. Science could illuminate every dark corner of the universe and theists will still find a crack to stuff god in. Is there any other area of your life, outside religion, where you are this accepting of an idea regardless of its source or contradiction with logic and the natural world?

Like I said, the mental gymnastics required to sustain the existence of a god must be very challenging.

Nah. I'm used to it. Not an insult.

Yes. There is an acceptance of faith. I've said without faith God is illogical. So, I understand what you're saying.

And yes... I've very reasonable and aware of the natural world.

My mental gymnastics aren't bad. Maybe a forward roll here and there, but much of my theology is pretty well reconciled.

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12-09-2012, 11:19 AM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 11:07 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Like I said, the mental gymnastics required to sustain the existence of a god must be very challenging.
All it requires is the gullibility and the logical and critical thinking skills of a mentally retarded 5 year old. Drinking Beverage

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12-09-2012, 12:31 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 09:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 08:19 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  I admit I did not cast around to see how many believers were about here. If you are right. I will find few to argue with.

Most here will be atheists then and as a Gnostic Christian, I usually agree with atheist's morals so I may not find any here to argue with at all. Arguing the existence of God is a useless exercise until he shows up and if he ever did, the Haig would have the first crack at him and if they missed, I have something for the S O B.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7vCww3j2-w

Regards
DL

You're a gnostic Christian?

Edit: Also, your response to me is melded within the quotes. Nothing big, just a little hard to read. I'll get back with you in a few.

Yes. Gnostic Christian is what I have labeled myself.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL
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12-09-2012, 12:34 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 12:31 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 09:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're a gnostic Christian?

Edit: Also, your response to me is melded within the quotes. Nothing big, just a little hard to read. I'll get back with you in a few.

Yes. Gnostic Christian is what I have labeled myself.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

In essence, then, your belief in Christianity is irrelevant to your life.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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12-09-2012, 12:35 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 09:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 08:19 AM)Greatest I am Wrote:  Most here will be atheists then and as a Gnostic Christian, I usually agree with atheist's morals so I may not find any here to argue with at all. Arguing the existence of God is a useless exercise until he shows up and if he ever did, the Haig would have the first crack at him and if they missed, I have something for the S O B.

The probability that there is a god even resembling yours or KC's is vanishingly small. The world looks just like it would look and behaves just like it would behave without any gods.

Your gods add nothing to our knowledge, and certainly not to our ethics or morals.

When you bring evidence of a god, I will discuss its attributes. Until you have evidence of existence, I think you should all just shut the fuck up. Your theological masturbation is boring, and your insistence on injecting it into discussions is annoying.

You are intellectually dishonest.

If all who do not think as you do shut up then you would have no one to vent your B S on.

Did I push you to believe as I do?

No I did not and would not.

It happens I have the proof I need but recognize that I have nothing to show. That is always the way with apotheosis.

Regards
DL
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12-09-2012, 12:37 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 12:35 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  It happens I have the proof I need but recognize that I have nothing to show. That is always the way with apotheosis.
Don't make me laugh. You don't have any proof at all. All you have is anecdotal evidence. Drinking Beverage

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12-09-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 09:12 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  A&B - In Romans 9 it talks about this. God has His own plan, and with that plan He has predestine some really bad stuff. It also says that we are not capable of asking about His morality because we are just humans.

C - Immorality is an imperfect action. A perfect being cannot commit something imperfect because then He would no longer be perfect. And, I don't know what perfect morality is supposed to be. I think that's something only God knows.

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[/quote]

What can I say to one who will not question concepts like morality of God.

Oh wait. The bible tells me what to tell such people.

"Test all things"
1 Thessalonians. 5:21

I do not blame you for ignoring the bible. It is full of crap. Right?

Regards
DL
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12-09-2012, 12:41 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 12:31 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 09:18 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're a gnostic Christian?

Edit: Also, your response to me is melded within the quotes. Nothing big, just a little hard to read. I'll get back with you in a few.

Yes. Gnostic Christian is what I have labeled myself.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself a Gnostic Christian naturalist.
Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheeple where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

In other words, you do a lot of 'shrooms. Drinking Beverage

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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12-09-2012, 12:42 PM
RE: Like it or not, God is immoral.
(12-09-2012 12:35 PM)Greatest I am Wrote:  
(12-09-2012 09:28 AM)Chas Wrote:  The probability that there is a god even resembling yours or KC's is vanishingly small. The world looks just like it would look and behaves just like it would behave without any gods.

Your gods add nothing to our knowledge, and certainly not to our ethics or morals.

When you bring evidence of a god, I will discuss its attributes. Until you have evidence of existence, I think you should all just shut the fuck up. Your theological masturbation is boring, and your insistence on injecting it into discussions is annoying.

You are intellectually dishonest.

If all who do not think as you do shut up then you would have no one to vent your B S on.

Did I push you to believe as I do?

No I did not and would not.

It happens I have the proof I need but recognize that I have nothing to show. That is always the way with apotheosis.

Regards
DL

What you have is not proof, it is delusion. You had a brain fart and now glorify it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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