Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
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10-03-2012, 03:23 AM
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
I suppose if you see it that way then it is what it is. I like cars. They're a huge hobby for me. So yeah, I would love to have something like that. But Jay also gives back to charitable foundations and helps people. So sure, he has spent a lot of money on cars, I get that. He's also helped a lot of people, if he wants a big car collection, ok cool, I'm fine with that.

I do not think it is the responsibility of the government to tell us that we can't own more than one car. If you can afford it, still give back and help others and you want luxuries... so be it.

If you want to live entirely frugal and give every excess penny you have away that is also your choice. Yes, people are inherently greedy. I own more than one car, but I also give back. I help people. I'm a nice guy. So are you saying I shouldn't be allowed to own more than one car because it makes me happy?

Quote:EVERYTHING in the universe is LUCK. Its all chance. So you can disagree till your blue in the face, but it wont change the fact you are dead wrong. That guy is just one of 7 billion that the stars aligned for and he made it the top of the pyramid. Some people's story might be slightly more interesting than simply inheriting their wealth, but does that make them anymore entitled? Not really.

There is absolutely no way to justify having billions whilst some poor fuck is dying on the street. If you think there are, then you are fucking sick in the head. You are either completely brain washed, a fucking psychopath, or both.

Wow dude you are really angry. I haven't cussed at you or been rude to you thus far at all, can't we have a polite conversation here? We can agree to disagree and that's fine but to start out with that sort of language, I guess I feel is a bit unwarranted since I haven't been rude to you at all. I've not personally insulted you at all.
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10-03-2012, 03:26 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 03:35 AM by Buddy Christ.)
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
If we just bent the line of the progressive tax towards the wealthy side a bit more, that would be step one (Warren Buffett shouldn't be paying the same taxes as Joe Welfare Check). The problem is... I don't want that money to become tax dollars. Because sadly, in this country, tax dollars rarely help me. The government would just put more money into military technology and the rest of it would disappear mysteriously.

But I still feel something should be done to spread the wealth without resorting to socialism. Soldiers, teachers, firefighters, and most jobs that benefit society directly make less than 50k a year, while movie stars, musicians, and athletes make several million, contributing nothing but entertainment. Tom Cruise hasn't made a good movie since Minority Report and that was by accident, and he still makes 20 million a movie. That's 400 times more than a well paid teacher. Am to believe that his job is 400 times more important than teaching our youth? Every single time he makes a movie, he makes 400 people's yearly salaries. And that's being generous, assuming a 50k job, which is pretty damn good. Most "work your asses off til your feet blister" jobs pay 20-30k. So Tom Cruise makes the same amount of money memorizing lines and looking handsome... as 1000 "fifty hours a week, never see my kids" Americans.



[Image: average-ceo-to-worker-pay-by-country-chart.jpg]



As to the validity of the chart, PolitiFact tried to confirm it and found that the CEO to worker ratio has ranged from 185:1 in a study one year to 525:1 another year. Either way, it's quite ridiculous.

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10-03-2012, 03:28 AM
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
Quote:Tom Cruise hasn't made a good movie since Minority Report and that was by accident, and he still makes 20 million a movie.

I lol'd because it's true.

That above graph is crazy Buddy Christ. Those are numbers I was unaware of. Insane stuff. 475:1 is just... wow.
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10-03-2012, 03:46 AM
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
Why is it every time someone talks about the wealthy they bring up the same BS scenario? Some dude who was raised completely broke, and then pulled himself up from nothing, and suddenly became rich.

Its a nice story, but yah it almost never happens. Yet they act as if its the norm, and parade these fictional people as mascots. And its obvious why they do it. They want the average joe to think it could happen to them, but we all know it can't. However, just that miniscule chance is enough for them to become sympathetic to woes of the rich.

"These rich people worked really, really, really hard to get where they are, and they shouldn't have to give the govt all their money!! After all, I might get rich one day, and I don't want the govt to take all my money!"

Next they try to drill this BS about the wealthy creating jobs into the head of the people. They don't, this has been dis-proven time and time again. But they have the money, and if they can get the media, cough Faux news, cough, to spout it enough then the people will start to believe it.
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10-03-2012, 03:49 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 04:02 AM by jackashflash.)
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
(10-03-2012 03:26 AM)Buddy Christ Wrote:  [Image: average-ceo-to-worker-pay-by-country-chart.jpg]

I am not one for conspiracy theories, but doesnt it strike you odd that we don't outsource CEOs? Doesn't that seem really fucking weird? We could hire a Japanese CEO for 2% what we pay the American to do it! Its almost like there is a secret ivy league pact that the rest of us don't know about.

We are far better off with the govt having the money than the wealthy. We know the wealthy will just horde it or invest it into another country. At least there is a chance that the govt will help the people some.

(10-03-2012 03:23 AM)Logisch Wrote:  Wow dude you are really angry. I haven't cussed at you or been rude to you thus far at all, can't we have a polite conversation here? We can agree to disagree and that's fine but to start out with that sort of language, I guess I feel is a bit unwarranted since I haven't been rude to you at all. I've not personally insulted you at all.

I am sorry you find facts rude...I thought this forum was a place of logic and reason.
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10-03-2012, 04:06 AM
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
It is a place of logic and reason. Logic and reason don't have to be construed with foul language to get your point across, we're all capable of having polite discussion to get our points across. That's all I'm saying. Then again, the way you said it may be because you are passionate about this topic, and if that's the case then so be it. You make fair points. I don't think that I'm 100% correct on everything and of course I'll admit that. I also realize that what I may wish to do with my money if I had that kind of money may be considered greedy. I also would give back. Then again, I think a lot of people might do similar. I'd be lying if I didn't say I didn't like luxurious things. I also am not in the 475:1 category, so it's rather difficult to put myself there.
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10-03-2012, 07:46 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 07:49 AM by LostLocke.)
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
I agree that firefighters,, police, teachers, etc deserve way more money than their getting. The budget cuts in some of those areas is atrocious.
However, I don't think that comparing them to actors, musicians, sports figures etc is all that accurate.

For the most part the first group is public and funded by the government, whereas the second group is private business.
I'm not one who has any support for the rich getting richer, but I also have no interest in having the government telling how I can spend my own money.
If I make a crappy movie and have the money to have you star in it at a cost of say $50M, if it's my money I'm spending I don't feel the state has any right to step in and say I'm paying you too much.

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10-03-2012, 07:55 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 08:02 AM by jackashflash.)
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
(10-03-2012 03:46 AM)mysticjbyrd Wrote:  Why is it every time someone talks about the wealthy they bring up the same BS scenario? Some dude who was raised completely broke, and then pulled himself up from nothing, and suddenly became rich.

Its a nice story, but yah it almost never happens. Yet they act as if its the norm, and parade these fictional people as mascots. And its obvious why they do it. They want the average joe to think it could happen to them, but we all know it can't. However, just that miniscule chance is enough for them to become sympathetic to woes of the rich.

"These rich people worked really, really, really hard to get where they are, and they shouldn't have to give the govt all their money!! After all, I might get rich one day, and I don't want the govt to take all my money!"

Next they try to drill this BS about the wealthy creating jobs into the head of the people. They don't, this has been dis-proven time and time again. But they have the money, and if they can get the media, cough Faux news, cough, to spout it enough then the people will start to believe it.

This. This. This.

They always make a rant based on this imaginary character to elicit sympathy for the poor rich bastards.
(10-03-2012 07:46 AM)LostLocke Wrote:  I agree that firefighters,, police, teachers, etc deserve way more money than their getting. The budget cuts in some of those areas is atrocious.
However, I don't think that comparing them to actors, musicians, sports figures etc is all that accurate.

For the most part the first group is public and funded by the government, whereas the second group is private business.
I'm not one who has any support for the rich getting richer, but I also have no interest in having the government telling how I can spend my own money.
If I make a crappy movie and have the money to have you star in it at a cost of say $50M, if it's my money I'm spending I don't feel the state has any right to step in and say I'm paying you too much.

They don't! No on is suggesting that the govt stop you from buying stupid shit.
Just that they put a limit on the greed.
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10-03-2012, 08:12 AM (This post was last modified: 10-03-2012 08:21 AM by mysticjbyrd.)
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
(10-03-2012 03:23 AM)Logisch Wrote:  I suppose if you see it that way then it is what it is. I like cars. They're a huge hobby for me. So yeah, I would love to have something like that. But Jay also gives back to charitable foundations and helps people. So sure, he has spent a lot of money on cars, I get that. He's also helped a lot of people, if he wants a big car collection, ok cool, I'm fine with that.

I do not think it is the responsibility of the government to tell us that we can't own more than one car. If you can afford it, still give back and help others and you want luxuries... so be it.

This is another ridiculous statement that the rich like to peddle off as humility to the saps. We don't need welfare and social programs, instead we will just let those people rely on charitable hand outs from the rich.

Ahh yah, thats BULLSHIT! Just because a the rich sometimes give a small fraction of their combined wealth to charity doesn't excuse their insanely massive amount of wealth. Heck in fact, they writes those donations off on their taxes any damn way. So in reality they didn't really 'give' anything, because they wouldn't have been able to keep it in the end anyways.
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10-03-2012, 08:15 AM
RE: Limited capitalism: a "you're too rich" cap on income
I love this topic, if anyone is against the super wealthy, there's always someone who says "lets not be socialist" like that was a bad thing Tongue

we should learn from nature to distribute resources, the weird thing about capitalism is that it's anentropic, and I don't think we could find any economic system that isn't because it would be inefficient for humans. But maybe, and just maybe, we could make things in such a way that the more money you have the harder is to get more money, then that would be awesome Big Grin

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