Little Brother
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20-04-2013, 06:13 AM
Little Brother
Some of you have heard recently that my 7-year-old brother has been excersizing a bit of skepticism in regard to religion and its various mythical characters. Well, I paid a visit to my parents' a day or two ago and had the opportunity to converse with the little guy alone.

It's a thing, between him and me, that he asks a question and I reply to the best of my ability because I am, as far as he's concerned, omniscient.

Me: "Who knows everything?"

Him: "You do."

Me: "Damn straight."

Well during my visit, he informed me that he had found my old Razor scooter in the shed and wanted to show me a trick. He intended to ride down a slanted railroad-tie that my dad has set up as a flower bed, and I voiced my aprehension. The kid barely has his balance on the thing, so he'd surely wreck if he attempted such a feat. (Like I did when I...tried it moments later... Blush ) When I told him that it wasn't a good idea, he insisted that it was, and I responded with my usual "Hey; who knows everything?" To my surprise, he said "Not you!" I assumed it was just childish banter, so I insisted that "yes I do".

It was all fun and games at first, but he proceeded to relay some disturbing news. He told me that no, I don't know everything, because mommy has apparently been subverting my teaching of the child for some time. More specifically, I had recently explained to him how the Sun will eventually burn out. He used this as his example of how mom has subverted me, saying "You don't know everything because you said the Sun would burn out, and mommy says Jehovah isn't going to let that happen."

I was only a little irritated by this revelation, but I was made even more so by what he said next. He proceeded to tell me that "daddy says I shouldn't listen to you because you don't even believe in Jehovah. He said the Bible can't be wrong and if you tell me something that isn't in the Bible, then I shouldn't listen to you. So you're wrong about the Sun. It's not going to burn out."

The next chance I got, which was only a short while later, I confronted my mom - the first of my parents I happened to encounter - about what they'd been saying about me to my brother. I told her that the kid asks me questions and I answer them honestly, and that I didn't appreciate her going behind my back and sowing distrust. I realize they're too fucking old and set in their ways to accept even the most basic scientific truths, but the kid is young and inquisitive. When he asks a question about how the world works, I'd like to be able to give him a viable, unbiased, scientific answer. But apparently I can't do that, because "I don't even believe in Jehovah".

After a moderately lengthy discussion about the matter, I was informed that they'd like me to stop spending so much time with my brother. They feel they have "one more chance" to raise a child in God's word, and my presence is proving to be a "bad influence" on that process of indoctrination. (Funny; I've never really spoken to him about God at all) For this reason, they'd like any future contact with him to be limited; allowing me to see him only when absolutely necessary, such as picking him up from school when I am the only other person who is able to do so.

To sumarize, for those of you who don't feel like reading: I gave the kid basic, honest answers to his inquiries. I am now restricted from seeing him because I am an atheist who is, to some extent, inspiring reason and healthy skepticism in the child.




I'll admit, though, there is still the slightest glimmer of hope, in that the boy still displays a sense of skepticism. When he said that "mommy and daddy said the Sun isn't going to burn out", I asked "Are mommy and daddy scientists?" His answer both delighted and irritated me in equal measures.

"No...but neither are you."

That's good thing, I suppose. Even if I was merely refering to the findings of actual scientists; he still felt that he shouldn't take me at my word. So perhaps, in some way, there is some hope for him.

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
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20-04-2013, 06:29 AM
RE: Little Brother
Prepare yourself.

In around 10 years or less, you will have to pick up and reassemble some emotional pieces when the kid realises that his parents have deceived him.

Truth will out, sunshine.

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20-04-2013, 08:06 AM
RE: Little Brother
Sad Jeez dude. This is heavy shit. Sorry. I don't know... to stand watching while they force feed this guy indoctrination... it's a bitter thing. There's two ways this could go - one, he figures it out eventually and is scarred for life by the indoctrination experience, or two, he doesn't figure it out and the light of his creativity and skepticism is carefully extinguished by his loving parents who teach him all the right answers, and not to ask further questions because of the danger of asking questions not covered by the standard bullshit.

I'd say, for now play it cool. Let the tension simmer down... if you can remain in contact with him and leave the seeds of doubt you'll be doing him a greater service later on, than if there's an ultimatum and you're denied visiting rights.

Just out of interest, is it legal for them to deny you contact with him ?
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20-04-2013, 08:25 AM
RE: Little Brother
You're not alone. There are a lot of families and people going through that exact same thing right now.

"IN THRUST WE TRUST"

"We were conservative Jews and that meant we obeyed God's Commandments until His rules became a royal pain in the ass."

- Joel Chastnoff, The 188th Crybaby Brigade
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20-04-2013, 09:11 AM
RE: Little Brother
Fucking sucks. I went through a version of that: my stepbrother. I never met him and most likely never will. Same reasons.

*hugs*

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20-04-2013, 10:30 AM
RE: Little Brother
(20-04-2013 06:13 AM)Misanthropik Wrote:  Some of you have heard recently that my 7-year-old brother has been excersizing a bit of skepticism in regard to religion and its various mythical characters. Well, I paid a visit to my parents' a day or two ago and had the opportunity to converse with the little guy alone.

It's a thing, between him and me, that he asks a question and I reply to the best of my ability because I am, as far as he's concerned, omniscient.

Me: "Who knows everything?"

Him: "You do."

Me: "Damn straight."

Well during my visit, he informed me that he had found my old Razor scooter in the shed and wanted to show me a trick. He intended to ride down a slanted railroad-tie that my dad has set up as a flower bed, and I voiced my aprehension. The kid barely has his balance on the thing, so he'd surely wreck if he attempted such a feat. (Like I did when I...tried it moments later... Blush ) When I told him that it wasn't a good idea, he insisted that it was, and I responded with my usual "Hey; who knows everything?" To my surprise, he said "Not you!" I assumed it was just childish banter, so I insisted that "yes I do".

It was all fun and games at first, but he proceeded to relay some disturbing news. He told me that no, I don't know everything, because mommy has apparently been subverting my teaching of the child for some time. More specifically, I had recently explained to him how the Sun will eventually burn out. He used this as his example of how mom has subverted me, saying "You don't know everything because you said the Sun would burn out, and mommy says Jehovah isn't going to let that happen."

I was only a little irritated by this revelation, but I was made even more so by what he said next. He proceeded to tell me that "daddy says I shouldn't listen to you because you don't even believe in Jehovah. He said the Bible can't be wrong and if you tell me something that isn't in the Bible, then I shouldn't listen to you. So you're wrong about the Sun. It's not going to burn out."

The next chance I got, which was only a short while later, I confronted my mom - the first of my parents I happened to encounter - about what they'd been saying about me to my brother. I told her that the kid asks me questions and I answer them honestly, and that I didn't appreciate her going behind my back and sowing distrust. I realize they're too fucking old and set in their ways to accept even the most basic scientific truths, but the kid is young and inquisitive. When he asks a question about how the world works, I'd like to be able to give him a viable, unbiased, scientific answer. But apparently I can't do that, because "I don't even believe in Jehovah".

After a moderately lengthy discussion about the matter, I was informed that they'd like me to stop spending so much time with my brother. They feel they have "one more chance" to raise a child in God's word, and my presence is proving to be a "bad influence" on that process of indoctrination. (Funny; I've never really spoken to him about God at all) For this reason, they'd like any future contact with him to be limited; allowing me to see him only when absolutely necessary, such as picking him up from school when I am the only other person who is able to do so.

To sumarize, for those of you who don't feel like reading: I gave the kid basic, honest answers to his inquiries. I am now restricted from seeing him because I am an atheist who is, to some extent, inspiring reason and healthy skepticism in the child.




I'll admit, though, there is still the slightest glimmer of hope, in that the boy still displays a sense of skepticism. When he said that "mommy and daddy said the Sun isn't going to burn out", I asked "Are mommy and daddy scientists?" His answer both delighted and irritated me in equal measures.

"No...but neither are you."

That's good thing, I suppose. Even if I was merely refering to the findings of actual scientists; he still felt that he shouldn't take me at my word. So perhaps, in some way, there is some hope for him.

Sad I'm sorry Miso. Hug

The good news in all this he's only 7. When he gets older and begins to learn more about the world...he'll learn. And you'll be right there.


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Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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26-05-2013, 06:24 AM
RE: Little Brother
You could ask your little brother why Jehovah lets tornados take out a city or tsunami destroy Japan - so why would he stop the sun from going supernova?

Or you could take him to the local science museum once in a while (not the creation ones obviously :-) ) and let him ask lots of questions to actual experts.

. . . all the gods were stories we told the children to make them behave. ~ Thoros of Myr (Game of Thrones, Episode 3:06)
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26-05-2013, 06:54 AM (This post was last modified: 26-05-2013 06:58 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Little Brother
How absolutely despicable of them. Barring you from your own little brother because they are afraid you are interfering? That you are getting in the way of their attempts to absolutely and, I am sure if they had their way, irrevocably warping and dementing this young child's mind?

Is it not amazing that they think their deity powerful enough to prevent a supernova, yet totally unable to stop YOU, a mere mortal, from interfering with their "teaching" their child? Pathetic.

That is, with out a doubt, one of the *most disgusting, abhorrent, enraging acts I have ever read in my time on this forum. And I've seen a lot of tales and posts and links and videos which have simply disgusted or enraged me. But when I hear or read of something like this, it just gets to me.
The thought that a young, innocent child is under the threat of pretty much having their mind and individuality taken away and supplanted by the plaster mould which religions would rather have sickens me and your being pretty much banned from him makes my anger all the greater.

For what little good it will do, you've my sympathy, Misanthropic. Keep trying, man. Do what you can to protect this kid.


*To me, anyways.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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26-05-2013, 07:55 AM
RE: Little Brother
When I left the JWs I was in my 30s and my sister was in her teens. I didn't see her for the better part of a decade because my JW father forbade my husband (and by extension me and our children) from visiting their house. It kept us from having a "negative influence" on her. Well, they can't blame me for her quitting the JWs, because she did quit, and for many of the same reasons that I did.

We're getting to know each other again, and it's fantastic.

. . . all the gods were stories we told the children to make them behave. ~ Thoros of Myr (Game of Thrones, Episode 3:06)
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26-05-2013, 08:05 AM
RE: Little Brother
A good friend 'lost' her daughter to her JW ex-husband when the little girl was about 2. Her contact with the child was severely limited and because of my friend's indoctrination she felt that the right thing was for her to follow the rules laid down by the ex regarding the religion and limiting exposure to worldly people.

When the girl entered her teens, she opted to live with her mother again...full time. She now attends college (early). Is super smart and doing just fine away from the JWs. Her father has written her off but the girl has a better life because of it.

My friend kept contact, loved the girl with all her heart and played the game till the girl was old enough to make her own decisions and have a legal say. The girl chose to have a normal life with high school friends and sports and her step brothers.

I guess all this is to say...hang in there...love your brother. Understand his life with your parents. The day will come when he has more of a say in his life. Just be there. It sucks, but it will be worth it.

See here they are, the bruises, some were self-inflicted and some showed up along the way. - JF
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