Live electoral map
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11-11-2016, 04:58 PM
RE: Live electoral map
As long as we're playing what if games, who says the Johnson voters would have gone for Clinton? I would think they would more likely lean toward Trump. Libertarians, in my experience, are ideologically a lot closer to Republicans than Democrats.

Not that it really matters. Thump had his reasons (good ones, as far as I can see) for voting as he did, and I don't blame him (or any of the other third-party voters) for anything. Clinton and Trump were both horrible choices, and I respect anyone who couldn't bring himself to vote for either of them. I voted for Clinton only because she wasn't Trump. I really can't think of anything positive to say about her. "Not Trump" was her best quality.
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11-11-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: Live electoral map
(11-11-2016 04:26 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Yet if more people had a longer term scope on the subject and did consider yes their vote matters, more people who may desire it voting for a 3rd party(an actual party and not an independent candidate) can have more impact because if they actually had ever gotten that 5% of the vote, that would actually visually alter the next election based on established rules in a way that hasn't been done in since the early days of cable coverage tv politics.

The realism is that more than immediate impacts happen from choices.

The 5% thing was an aspect I hadn't considered. Thanks for pointing that out.
But it follows the same logic of making a vote count. On the other hand, Johnson was never a viable choice.

However, having more than two viable outcomes changes the math and makes the decision much more complicated.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-11-2016, 06:33 PM
RE: Live electoral map
I like to think that if Gangman Style can get a billion views in less time than either of these bobbleheads were campaigning, a 3rd party or independent can get a few dozen million clicks in an election once people realize it's okay to vote for someone other than the lesser evil.

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12-11-2016, 11:36 AM
RE: Live electoral map
(11-11-2016 01:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm sorry this conversation has gotten to where it is. I think you are taking this a little too personally. The target audience was for those whose vote really could have made a difference.

I don't object to someone voting his conscience especially when realistically his vote won't make a difference.
I'm in Massachusetts and my single vote would make no difference as Massachusetts went almost 2-to-1 for Clinton.
No one person's vote makes any difference which means that every vote potentially makes a difference. But we can only really know that in hindsight.

If a lot of people don't vote because they think their votes don't matter then their non-votes matter. What if Democrats had stayed away in droves in Massachusetts? What if Democrats had cast their protest votes for Johnson?

When people don't vote realistically, they go into the Basket of Ignorables.

This is why clarity is important.
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12-11-2016, 05:11 PM
RE: Live electoral map
(12-11-2016 11:36 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  
(11-11-2016 01:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  I'm sorry this conversation has gotten to where it is. I think you are taking this a little too personally. The target audience was for those whose vote really could have made a difference.

I don't object to someone voting his conscience especially when realistically his vote won't make a difference.
I'm in Massachusetts and my single vote would make no difference as Massachusetts went almost 2-to-1 for Clinton.
No one person's vote makes any difference which means that every vote potentially makes a difference. But we can only really know that in hindsight.

If a lot of people don't vote because they think their votes don't matter then their non-votes matter. What if Democrats had stayed away in droves in Massachusetts? What if Democrats had cast their protest votes for Johnson?

When people don't vote realistically, they go into the Basket of Ignorables.

This is why clarity is important.

I apologize for unintentionally insulting you.
My target audience was those in the swing states, not those in locked-down ones like Texas and Massachusetts.
While it seemed clear to me when I posted it, I see that I was not specific enough.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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