Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
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09-12-2016, 07:45 PM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(09-12-2016 07:35 PM)Fireball Wrote:  I've seen the training used to show law enforcement how not to be a witness to their own murders, complete with video footage of officers dying at the hands of armed individuals from their dash cameras. Even an unarmed person can disable an officer if (s)he is close enough, before the officer can draw a firearm for self defense. There is a prescribed distance (not sure, ~21 feet) at which law enforcement is authorized to use deadly force, because in that distance, they can be charged by the perp, and that's where it can get hairy in a hurry. No, it's not nice, it's not pretty, but that is the grim truth about subduing someone who is an immediate threat. Hate on me if you want, but I've seen the training, and it has resulted in fewer members of law enforcement being killed or injured seriously enough in the line of duty that they are permanently unable to serve. I know guys who have been slashed by a knife badly enough that they can't even use one arm again. I don't like what happened, either, but I'm not going to judge that officer based on that video.

Fair enough. It's reaction time and the self-preservation instinct vs rational desicion making. In fairness, I'm sure the officer in question is not feeling all that well about not subduing that kid in a non-lethal way.


Maybe in the future automated systems can solve this problem... no wait, bad idea.



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09-12-2016, 07:46 PM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(09-12-2016 07:35 PM)Fireball Wrote:  I've seen the training used to show law enforcement how not to be a witness to their own murders, complete with video footage of officers dying at the hands of armed individuals from their dash cameras. Even an unarmed person can disable an officer if (s)he is close enough, before the officer can draw a firearm for self defense. There is a prescribed distance (not sure, ~21 feet) at which law enforcement is authorized to use deadly force, because in that distance, they can be charged by the perp, and that's where it can get hairy in a hurry. No, it's not nice, it's not pretty, but that is the grim truth about subduing someone who is an immediate threat. Hate on me if you want, but I've seen the training, and it has resulted in fewer members of law enforcement being killed or injured seriously enough in the line of duty that they are permanently unable to serve. I know guys who have been slashed by a knife badly enough that they can't even use one arm again. I don't like what happened, either, but I'm not going to judge that officer based on that video.

This is true. Police officers in the USA are trained to shoot at a knife wielding suspect, if they are within 20' (or whatever) of themselves or a potential victim. In many ways, having a knife in hand is considered more of a reason to shoot, at that range, than a gun that's not immediately pointing at the officer. It's just the way it is.

The kids clearly thought he wasn't much of a threat, or they'd have run. They're not stupid, and they're as aware of school shootings and other attacks as the rest of us are.

I'd rather have seen the cop use a TASER or pepper spray to subdue the kid, especially given that bullets which miss can ricochet or simply hit someone in the line of fire, but I'm not going to play Monday morning quarterback on this, either.

You all know me well enough to know that I don't cut law enforcement any slack, due to my background. But that said, it's irrational to blame this officer for deciding he had to shoot this kid. If I felt there was even the slightest chance it was based on prejudice or poor judgment, I'd say so. I think this cop did the best he could.

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09-12-2016, 10:37 PM (This post was last modified: 09-12-2016 10:44 PM by Fireball.)
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(09-12-2016 07:46 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(09-12-2016 07:35 PM)Fireball Wrote:  I've seen the training used to show law enforcement how not to be a witness to their own murders, complete with video footage of officers dying at the hands of armed individuals from their dash cameras. Even an unarmed person can disable an officer if (s)he is close enough, before the officer can draw a firearm for self defense. There is a prescribed distance (not sure, ~21 feet) at which law enforcement is authorized to use deadly force, because in that distance, they can be charged by the perp, and that's where it can get hairy in a hurry. No, it's not nice, it's not pretty, but that is the grim truth about subduing someone who is an immediate threat. Hate on me if you want, but I've seen the training, and it has resulted in fewer members of law enforcement being killed or injured seriously enough in the line of duty that they are permanently unable to serve. I know guys who have been slashed by a knife badly enough that they can't even use one arm again. I don't like what happened, either, but I'm not going to judge that officer based on that video.

This is true. Police officers in the USA are trained to shoot at a knife wielding suspect, if they are within 20' (or whatever) of themselves or a potential victim. In many ways, having a knife in hand is considered more of a reason to shoot, at that range, than a gun that's not immediately pointing at the officer. It's just the way it is.

The kids clearly thought he wasn't much of a threat, or they'd have run. They're not stupid, and they're as aware of school shootings and other attacks as the rest of us are.

I'd rather have seen the cop use a TASER or pepper spray to subdue the kid, especially given that bullets which miss can ricochet or simply hit someone in the line of fire, but I'm not going to play Monday morning quarterback on this, either.

You all know me well enough to know that I don't cut law enforcement any slack, due to my background. But that said, it's irrational to blame this officer for deciding he had to shoot this kid. If I felt there was even the slightest chance it was based on prejudice or poor judgment, I'd say so. I think this cop did the best he could.

I'd be overjoyed if the officer had used a bean bag, taser, pepper spray, whatever, to subdue the kid, instead of lethal force. He's going to have to live with that for the rest of his life. It's a not good result for all involved. One thing I will say about the crowd- if I had witnessed this when I was in junior or senior high school, I would have gotten the hell out of Dodge, if I saw someone doing what this guy did. The drug and violence culture seen in the movies and on TV has desensitized our youth. Dodgy Most people get it, but I see it all the time, where people just don't get it.

ETA- I got cut with a knife by a guy at the bus stop when I was a sophomore in high school. Now that I look back on it, I should have reported it, but didn't. I just went to school, holding the cut closed until it quit bleeding. That has more to do with my poverty level and an expectation that I shouldn't expect to have a better life.
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10-12-2016, 05:35 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(09-12-2016 06:04 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(09-12-2016 05:40 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  It's obvious he DID train....

One shot - one stopped perp -- no collateral injuries.

Perfect.

....

Who needed training is the moron with the knives....

So... you consider it perfect that a slim, untrained, probably scared to shit child is shot dead with a gun, by a meatwagon trained in multiple ways of subduing people twice his size, with multiple *non-lethal* weapons at his disposal. This is "perfect" to you?




Throw some more adjectives at it - and maybe nobody will think the kid was armed with TWO knives.......He's just some innocent lambkins, that the big bad cop shot for no apparent reason..........

..............

The stupid punk put himself into a potentially deadly situation.

It's his fault.

Not mine.
Not the cop.
Not the NRA
Not Smith and Wesson.

The stupid fuck wielding the fucking knives.


It really IS that simple.

.......................................

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10-12-2016, 08:14 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(10-12-2016 05:35 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The stupid punk put himself into a potentially deadly situation.
...
It's his fault.
...
It really IS that simple.

I see you've never had the pleasure of experiencing the joy and delight of seriously fucked up imbalanced neurotransmitters. Here's hoping you never have to. But in the unfortunate event that you do, remember that it's all your fault.

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10-12-2016, 08:45 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(09-12-2016 01:40 PM)pablo Wrote:  People still don't know to turn their phone when taking video? Facepalm

Phone manufacturers still haven't figured out that consumers are not going to turn their phones when taking video. How hard would it really be for them to compensate for this? Dodgy
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10-12-2016, 08:50 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(10-12-2016 08:45 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(09-12-2016 01:40 PM)pablo Wrote:  People still don't know to turn their phone when taking video? Facepalm

Phone manufacturers still haven't figured out that consumers are not going to turn their phones when taking video. How hard would it really be for them to compensate for this? Dodgy

Consider
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10-12-2016, 08:51 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
This is what happens when you try to dual-wield at low levels.

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10-12-2016, 09:50 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(10-12-2016 08:14 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 05:35 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  The stupid punk put himself into a potentially deadly situation.
...
It's his fault.
...
It really IS that simple.

I see you've never had the pleasure of experiencing the joy and delight of seriously fucked up imbalanced neurotransmitters. Here's hoping you never have to. But in the unfortunate event that you do, remember that it's all your fault.

A cop doesn't have the luxury of time to psychoanalyze every idiot he runs into on a day to day basis.

He can just make the best decisions in the limited time he has.

And -- while there is some evidence he was bullied -- there's no evidence of mental defect in this cunt.... He just decided "to get even"....

......

I've no sympathy for cunts like him. He figures when things get sticky, he can drop his weapons and "olly olly oxen free" -- "game over", push the reset button - and he can't be touched.........

Wrong.....

I feel sorry for the cop -- who has to live with this cunt's actions fouling up the poor cop's day.....

Think of all the paperwork...

.......................................

The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.
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10-12-2016, 10:34 AM
RE: Logan Clark Should Not Have Been Shot
(10-12-2016 09:50 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(10-12-2016 08:14 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I see you've never had the pleasure of experiencing the joy and delight of seriously fucked up imbalanced neurotransmitters. Here's hoping you never have to. But in the unfortunate event that you do, remember that it's all your fault.

A cop doesn't have the luxury of time to psychoanalyze every idiot he runs into on a day to day basis.

He can just make the best decisions in the limited time he has.

And -- while there is some evidence he was bullied -- there's no evidence of mental defect in this cunt.... He just decided "to get even"....

......

I've no sympathy for cunts like him. He figures when things get sticky, he can drop his weapons and "olly olly oxen free" -- "game over", push the reset button - and he can't be touched.........

Wrong.....

I feel sorry for the cop -- who has to live with this cunt's actions fouling up the poor cop's day.....

Think of all the paperwork...

And because he can't psychoanalyze them, shooting them is somehow justified? Because of that he passes the risk to all the bystanders?

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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