Logic Proof for God
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09-04-2015, 07:00 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(09-04-2015 03:23 PM)kselfri Wrote:  It's a theological & historical text.

The Bible is not an historical text, in any way, shape or form.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-04-2015, 07:11 PM (This post was last modified: 09-04-2015 07:15 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Logic Proof for God
(09-04-2015 03:23 PM)kselfri Wrote:  So you don't see the Big Bang as a creation event? I propose that math/logic existed before that event, otherwise that event could not have occurred.

That's a nice fiction. Needs some dragons and vampires though.
There was no "before" space-time. It's a meaningless concept, for which, you have not a shred of evidence.

You seem to think that repeating, ad nauseam, things that have been debunked, somehow makes them true.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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09-04-2015, 08:30 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
1: Logic is not a magical thing that floats around the universe, it's a way of thinking.
2. Yes logic is a thought.
3. and correct you are again thought comes from a mind. OUR MIND
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10-04-2015, 12:39 AM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(09-04-2015 04:09 PM)kselfri Wrote:  1) Logic either exists or applies everywhere in the universe.
2) Logic is thought.

If Logic is thought then it cannot exist without something thinking it and also therefore cannot be the reason for the functioning of the universe. And without humans there would be no Logic.

Unless you are saying that God must exist because humans have not existed for the age of the universe and that in God's case it controls how the universe works. This is special pleading. Why can God think logically and make the planets orbit a sun whereas when I think logically about why my car should be working it is still stranded in bloody Holland?
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10-04-2015, 07:54 AM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(09-04-2015 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  1) Humans have mental tools that apply everywhere in the universe.
2) Mental tools are thought.
3) Thought only comes from a mind.
Therefore, a mind created the universe.
See how that doesn't work? Consider

I think this argument is even worse than that. It's time to take a step back to the previous fork in the road:
1. Humans may or may not be able to construct a model of reality that is predictive of reality
1a. If humans are not able to construct a model of reality that is predictive of reality then God must have created it in his infinite mystery and power
1b. If humans are able to construct a model of reality that is predictive of reality then God must have created it in his infinite consistency and steadfastness

This proof pretends to be about minds and mathematics but is really begging the question. In the OP's mind the God is foregone conclusion and no matter what reality looks like it will be interpreted to prove that the God exists.

kselfri, I think its time you took a step back and asked yourself what you are really trying to achieve with your proof. Is it to convince something of what you "know" is true, or are you interested in an actual inquiry here?

In other words: How would you discover that your are wrong? Is your claim falsifiable, or is it fixed in place against all possible evidence? What evidence could be presented to you that would falsify your position?

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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10-04-2015, 08:27 AM
Logic Proof for God
(10-04-2015 07:54 AM)Hafnof Wrote:  
(09-04-2015 04:16 PM)Chas Wrote:  1) Humans have mental tools that apply everywhere in the universe.
2) Mental tools are thought.
3) Thought only comes from a mind.
Therefore, a mind created the universe.
See how that doesn't work? Consider

I think this argument is even worse than that. It's time to take a step back to the previous fork in the road:
1. Humans may or may not be able to construct a model of reality that is predictive of reality
1a. If humans are not able to construct a model of reality that is predictive of reality then God must have created it in his infinite mystery and power
1b. If humans are able to construct a model of reality that is predictive of reality then God must have created it in his infinite consistency and steadfastness

This proof pretends to be about minds and mathematics but is really begging the question. In the OP's mind the God is foregone conclusion and no matter what reality looks like it will be interpreted to prove that the God exists.

kselfri, I think its time you took a step back and asked yourself what you are really trying to achieve with your proof. Is it to convince something of what you "know" is true, or are you interested in an actual inquiry here?

In other words: How would you discover that your are wrong? Is your claim falsifiable, or is it fixed in place against all possible evidence? What evidence could be presented to you that would falsify your position?

Precisely. There is a resistance to acknowledging that math emerges from a mind describing the universe and not that math was used to create the universe. The former doesn't support the presupposed conclusion.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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