Logic Proof for God
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15-03-2015, 08:04 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(15-03-2015 11:20 AM)kselfri Wrote:  1) Logic exists everywhere in the universe.
2) Logic is thought.
3) Thought only comes from a mind.
Therefore, a mind created the universe.

Premise #2 could use some explanation, so I'll add the following:
Logic, in its various forms (including mathematics) has been something we discover, not something invented by man. It is not matter or energy. It does not require any dimensions in order to exist, and can exist outside the universe. What else is left for it to be, except thought?

I find this unsatisfying. It's like saying hammers are useful everywhere in the universe. Hammers are tools. Tools only come from factories. Therefore a factory created the universe.

Logic is a tool that we make up. It's how we as humans conceptualize the universe. Just like how we invent math. And it is invented, not discovered. Newton didn't DISCOVER calculus, he invented it. There might be other sentient beings in this universe whose logic and math would be incomprehensible to us, because they saw the universe differently.

dimaniac Wrote:God exists outside of time no contradiction there.
There is no evidence that universe is eternal.
And even if it's eternal it still doesn't answer why there is something rather than nothing

Why do you think there is a God and why would he exist outside time? Anything that is outside time is outside of space as well, so by that very statement god is not in this universe.

And there are some scientists who DO think the universe is eternal. And I tend to agree with them, but my knowledge of cosmology is limited and my opinion is based on my knowledge of calculus.

As to the last line, this makes no sense. If the universe is eternal then the question of why it exists loses meaning. It might be an interesting philosophical topic, but if the universe is eternal then there was no possibility of it not existing.
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16-03-2015, 03:23 AM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(15-03-2015 02:16 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 02:10 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  That something has always existed of course. Careful, if you claim that this is impossible then it is also impossible for your god. Don't want to contradict yourself.
God exists outside of time no contradiction there.
There is no evidence that universe is eternal.
And even if it's eternal it still doesn't answer why there is something rather than nothing

please explain the implications and ramifications of existing outside of time

also we only understand nothingness on a philosophical level because actual nothingness is something we haven't yet observed and we have no way to test it I might add

also why does it honestly matter if there is something rather than nothing ? lets say you found out the answer to this question.. why would anyone care ? honestly what decision could you possibly make based on that knowledge ?

name a single decision you could make where you would've made another choice if you knew the answer ?
if that knowledge can't be used to make decisions with real predictable outcomes then it loses all relevance immediately because knowing it or whether its true or false is irrelevant at that point

the only reason this has any relevance in apologetics is because the holy books say god did it otherwise apologists wouldn't be so protective of all this nothingness shenanigans
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16-03-2015, 04:04 AM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(16-03-2015 03:23 AM)Ace Wrote:  the only reason this has any relevance in apologetics is because the holy books say god did it otherwise apologists wouldn't be so protective of all this nothingness shenanigans


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16-03-2015, 03:58 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(15-03-2015 02:16 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  And even if it's eternal it still doesn't answer why there is something rather than nothing

Try applying this logic to God.

Even if God is eternal it still doesn't answer why there is a God rather than no God.
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16-03-2015, 04:21 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(16-03-2015 03:58 PM)SevenPatch Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 02:16 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  And even if it's eternal it still doesn't answer why there is something rather than nothing

Try applying this logic to God.
You can't apply any logic to God since he created logic
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16-03-2015, 04:38 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(16-03-2015 04:21 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  You can't apply any logic to God since he created logic

You can't apply any logic to the universe since logic is a byproduct of the universe.
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16-03-2015, 04:51 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2015 04:55 PM by Shadow Fox.)
RE: Logic Proof for God
(16-03-2015 04:21 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 03:58 PM)SevenPatch Wrote:  Try applying this logic to God.
You can't apply any logic to God since he created logic

Bitch! Do you have any fucking clue what you are even talking about?

First off. retard!

Quote:Logic (from the Ancient Greek: λογική, logike)[1] is the use and study of valid reasoning.[2][3] The study of logic features most prominently in the subjects of philosophy, mathematics, and computer science.

Logic is created by humans as a means to interact with the world around them and clarify what is real and not. It is not some Objective fucking thing that can be created. Therefor, it is NOT a physical objective state that exists in the mother fucking universe. Damn your fucking stupid.

Second. PROVE IT mother FUCKER!

You assert that your God created Logic? are you fucking kidding me?! You can't even prove he exists let alone he created jack fucking shit!

You are just trying to say he created Logic, because the logical argument is the one Christians and other thesits can never win against. So by saying ( oh! well then he CREATED the very same logic you are trying to use against us so your wrong and we win! hahahah! ) as a means to try and make a pathetic, and childish attempt to remove logic from any argumentation. By removing logic, reasoning and TRUTH from the fucking equasion. The only fucking thing left is to be forced to believe that fucking animals can talk, PIXIES exist, and mother fucking people living inside of an live animal for several days is possible with people turning to salt and magical fire raining from the sky!

To that line of thought, I have to say to you.....

FUCK YOU!

I can see right through all yo motha fuckin arguments. Nottin gitz past me yo!


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16-03-2015, 05:45 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(15-03-2015 02:07 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 01:53 PM)true scotsman Wrote:  You've left out some options.
which?
Another:
theists are wrong because a theistic god does not exist which would also mean that atheists are wrong as well because there is a god. But prove a theistic god exists.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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16-03-2015, 06:36 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(16-03-2015 04:21 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 03:58 PM)SevenPatch Wrote:  Try applying this logic to God.
You can't apply any logic to God since he created logic

How convenient. I call this the theist get out of logic free card. You want to carve out a special exemption for your God. I am actually going to agree with you. Logic does not apply to your God, but not for the reason you stated. Logic doesn't apply to it because it is wholly imaginary. Imaginary things can do anything and be anything that the one imagining wants them to do. Imaginary things are not real and do not actually exist. I know that your god is imaginary because it is indistinguishable from something that is wholly imaginary.

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16-03-2015, 10:17 PM (This post was last modified: 16-03-2015 10:36 PM by Ace.)
RE: Logic Proof for God
(16-03-2015 04:21 PM)dimaniac Wrote:  
(16-03-2015 03:58 PM)SevenPatch Wrote:  Try applying this logic to God.
You can't apply any logic to God since he created logic

Facepalm this is stupid

logic is nothing more than a process, if god created it then that means before creating it god had no logic

your violating your own premises by saying the universe needs so and so and applying special pleading to make it look like god is the only viable way by making him exempt from all constraints you place on everything else

all your doing is trying to prove god with words because you know full well you have NO EVIDENCE to back up your claim
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