Logic Proof for God
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18-03-2015, 01:02 PM (This post was last modified: 18-03-2015 01:12 PM by Ace.)
RE: Logic Proof for God
so god can do everything, well he can't





demonstrate your god otherwise STFU

edit:
if you can't demonstrate you god with empirical evidence then your nothing but a waste of time here
no matter how much spin you use what your saying amounts to nothing more than garbage unless you can back it up with empirical evidence

seriously what experiments can we use to verify what your claiming ? unless you can tell us this your claims are rejected by default without objection
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18-03-2015, 03:27 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
But... logic is not a thing, it does not exist , it is a discipline. As the definition says it's a the use and study of valid reasoning.

Universe doesn't come from logic . logic comes from (observing and valid reasoning of) the Universe , obviously this is why it is applicable (or like the OP says "exists " ) everywhere in the Universe, because that is the only way possible.

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25-03-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(15-03-2015 12:48 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  Why is it illogical?

Because it is much simpler & easier for nothing to exist at all. Existence is not a necessity.
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25-03-2015, 05:58 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(15-03-2015 11:32 AM)WillHopp Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 11:20 AM)kselfri Wrote:  1) Logic exists everywhere in the universe.
2) Logic is thought.
3) Thought only comes from a mind.
Therefore, a mind created the universe.

How do you know logic exists everywhere? Can you prove that? These logical syllogisms require the first premise be undeniably true. Yours isn't.

How is logic thought? It doesn't equal thought. Making some huge leaps here. These require the second premise be true. Yours isn't.

Hence, the conclusion is flawed.

Could you travel to some far corner of the universe where "if A=B and B=C, then A=C" is not true? There's ample empirical evidence that the rules of logic hold true everywhere, and no evidence to suggest otherwise.

Perhaps you can accept logic is a product of thought?
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25-03-2015, 05:59 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(25-03-2015 05:55 PM)kselfri Wrote:  
(15-03-2015 12:48 PM)The Polyglot Atheist Wrote:  Why is it illogical?

Because it is much simpler & easier for nothing to exist at all. Existence is not a necessity.

How is it simpler? Also, if this is an attempt at using Occam's Razor, all you're demonstrating you don't understand what it says.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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25-03-2015, 06:05 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(25-03-2015 05:58 PM)kselfri Wrote:  Could you travel to some far corner of the universe where "if A=B and B=C, then A=C" is not true?

Probably in QM...
Seriously though, do you know what happens when an electron goes from one orbital to another (or, at least, the QM interpretation of the phenomenon)? It disappears from one spot in one orbital and reappears in another spot in another orbital. Does this seem logical?
What about the fact that QM events are probabilistic, yet our universe (macroscopic scale) is pretty much deterministic? How do you go from randomness to determinism? They're opposites. Does that seem logical?

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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25-03-2015, 10:33 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(25-03-2015 06:05 PM)One Above All Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 05:58 PM)kselfri Wrote:  Could you travel to some far corner of the universe where "if A=B and B=C, then A=C" is not true?

Probably in QM...
Seriously though, do you know what happens when an electron goes from one orbital to another (or, at least, the QM interpretation of the phenomenon)? It disappears from one spot in one orbital and reappears in another spot in another orbital. Does this seem logical?
What about the fact that QM events are probabilistic, yet our universe (macroscopic scale) is pretty much deterministic? How do you go from randomness to determinism? They're opposites. Does that seem logical?

The counter-intuitiveness of QM or our lack of understanding of the underpinnings of QM is not a measure of the existence logic itself. Some of the oddities of QM may be due to interactions with dimensions other than 4 dimensional space-time. These non-observable interactions are "hidden", thus appearing illogical. Quantum entangled particles aren't completely random. The state of one may not be known initially, but once one is measured and known, the other coupled particle's state is known. Additionally, statistics is still based on mathematical laws.
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25-03-2015, 10:39 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(25-03-2015 05:59 PM)One Above All Wrote:  
(25-03-2015 05:55 PM)kselfri Wrote:  Because it is much simpler & easier for nothing to exist at all. Existence is not a necessity.

How is it simpler? Also, if this is an attempt at using Occam's Razor, all you're demonstrating you don't understand what it says.

No razor. The expanse of complexities that make up the universe ....just isn't simple to me vs. the non-existence. I welcome your explanation for how it's not.
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25-03-2015, 11:12 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(18-03-2015 03:27 PM)Slowminded Wrote:  But... logic is not a thing, it does not exist , it is a discipline. As the definition says it's a the use and study of valid reasoning.

Universe doesn't come from logic . logic comes from (observing and valid reasoning of) the Universe , obviously this is why it is applicable (or like the OP says "exists " ) everywhere in the Universe, because that is the only way possible.

When I use "logic" in the proof, I'm not referring to study of reasoning, like a college course. I'm referring to undeniable laws, which need no observation to be substantiated. You don't need to go outside and observe things like "if A=B and B=c, then A=c", or "2+2=4". Mathematics is included here also as logic, it is the logic of how quantities relate to each other. Mathematics is immaterial, it's laws and theorems can exist independently of the physical world, but the physical world cannot exist & behave independently of mathematics.

I can draw an analogy with a programming language vs. programs. The programming language makes up the the laws which the program must obey. If the programming language were the logic, then the program is the physical world. The language can exist w/o the program, but the program cannot exist w/o the language.
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25-03-2015, 11:15 PM
RE: Logic Proof for God
(18-03-2015 01:02 PM)Ace Wrote:  so god can do everything, well he can't





demonstrate your god otherwise STFU

edit:
if you can't demonstrate you god with empirical evidence then your nothing but a waste of time here
no matter how much spin you use what your saying amounts to nothing more than garbage unless you can back it up with empirical evidence

seriously what experiments can we use to verify what your claiming ? unless you can tell us this your claims are rejected by default without objection

What empirical evidence would you accept?
Do you reject ALL things that don't have empirical evidence?
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