Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
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05-11-2013, 05:57 PM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(05-11-2013 03:46 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(05-11-2013 09:04 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Before humans existed, the universe didn't exist.
Before humans existed, the universe did exist.
Both of these statements are true, it's just a matter of time
The universe didn't exist. The universe exists. Humans exist.
You can clearly see that both of these events happen before humans existed.

This person is asking if the laws of the universe existed before we discovered them ?
Well duh, yes the physics of the universe that the universe operates under existed before us.
And they still exist today

The idea that something that existed before humans were aware of it has any deeper meaning than that same something that still exists today is idiotic.
We haven't discovered all the laws of nature and yet those laws still exist whether we are aware of them or not.

Let's take a moment to think about a hypothetical god who exists for an infinite amount of time before anything existed.
What does one think about when there is literally nothing that one can think about ?
What does one know, when there is nothing to know ?
There is only void and darkness. Can you even produce a thought in these conditions of nothing ?
There is no power, no thought, no knowledge, no wisdom

What you have is nothing.

This guy wants to talk about laws of contradiction existing before we do. Sure
And then I would say to him that his god is and always has been ....nothing
The universe coming to existence didn't change the nature of his god, the same way that our existence didn't change the nature of the universe.

Did Leonardo see nothing before paint touched canvas? Was Einstein's mind empty and void before he touched chalk to chalkboard? Were Sheldon and Leonard clueless before they sat for their dissertation defenses or asked Penny and Amy on first dates?

In the beginning, there was energy and pure mind. And this energy gave of itself, and stretched space. And it said, "Since there is conservation of matter and energy, I will give of my energy to provide matter, and form, and order, and humanity, and love."

And there it was.


Right. o.O;

If I might ask (because I am a bit thick) what is "pure mind"?

-- Max

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I am not afraid to go out of it that way.
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05-11-2013, 06:34 PM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
Just to get some examples of what the guy was talking about, . . . does anyone have an example of:

"Can the universe have existed and not existed in the same way and at the same time...?"
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05-11-2013, 08:18 PM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(04-11-2013 09:24 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  "Can the universe have existed and not existed in the same way and at the same time before there was a human mind?"

"Before there where humans could the universe have existed and not existed in the same way and at the same time?"

"Does the law of non-contradiction function before there were humans brains to understand it?"

Classic Bait and switch, "its' a Trap", to lube you for mind rape.

I reply to a proposal like this by saying anything is possible.
But "anything possible" is infinite, so distant from "probable" that its not worth contemplating.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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05-11-2013, 09:09 PM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(05-11-2013 08:18 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(04-11-2013 09:24 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  "Can the universe have existed and not existed in the same way and at the same time before there was a human mind?"

"Before there where humans could the universe have existed and not existed in the same way and at the same time?"

"Does the law of non-contradiction function before there were humans brains to understand it?"

Classic Bait and switch, "its' a Trap", to lube you for mind rape.

I reply to a proposal like this by saying anything is possible.
But "anything possible" is infinite, so distant from "probable" that its not worth contemplating.

So it's like the old "if a tree falls in a forest and crushes a hipster does anybody give a fuck" thing?

I'm still wondering what the "pure mind" is all about. Perhaps a Chopraesque notion?

-- Max

I came into this world screaming and covered in someone else's blood. I am not afraid to go out of it that way.
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05-11-2013, 09:16 PM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(05-11-2013 09:09 PM)nooneofconsequence Wrote:  
(05-11-2013 08:18 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Classic Bait and switch, "its' a Trap", to lube you for mind rape.

I reply to a proposal like this by saying anything is possible.
But "anything possible" is infinite, so distant from "probable" that its not worth contemplating.

So it's like the old "if a tree falls in a forest and crushes a hipster does anybody give a fuck" thing?

I'm still wondering what the "pure mind" is all about. Perhaps a Chopraesque notion?

-- Max

In GTAV game the Trevor character (Deadpool esq). gets offended by a hipsters T-shirt
activating a rampage mission where you kill hundreds of them.
It's a deliciously guilt pleasure. their on hipster bikes, in mini coopers. its glorious.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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05-11-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(05-11-2013 09:09 PM)nooneofconsequence Wrote:  
(05-11-2013 08:18 PM)sporehux Wrote:  Classic Bait and switch, "its' a Trap", to lube you for mind rape.

I reply to a proposal like this by saying anything is possible.
But "anything possible" is infinite, so distant from "probable" that its not worth contemplating.

So it's like the old "if a tree falls in a forest and crushes a hipster does anybody give a fuck" thing?

I'm still wondering what the "pure mind" is all about. Perhaps a Chopraesque notion?

-- Max

I've heard TAG apologists use the term to describe god, but with a variety of ambiguous descriptors and equivocal meanings.
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06-11-2013, 02:39 AM
Re: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
Well I can see the hate=murder concept probably comes from him extending the Jesus line, if you look upon a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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06-11-2013, 03:22 AM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(06-11-2013 02:39 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Well I can see the hate=murder concept probably comes from him extending the Jesus line, if you look upon a woman with lust, you've committed adultery in your heart.

Yep, and who doesn't love thought crime amiright!? Dodgy

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06-11-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
Didn't the old testament god admit that "he hated Esau"? So, . . . if "hate = murder", . . . when will the old testament god pay for the sin of murder?

Of course, . . . the old testament god [and the new testament god, if you believe the ridiculous Revelation doctrine] didn't need "hate" to murder millions in a global flood, or indirectly as he called for the complete destruction of all people from various cultures. Is he going to pay for those sins? Of course not.
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06-11-2013, 08:20 AM
RE: Logic/Reason without a human brain? Christian apologetics.
(06-11-2013 07:53 AM)DeavonReye Wrote:  Didn't the old testament god admit that "he hated Esau"? So, . . . if "hate = murder", . . . when will the old testament god pay for the sin of murder?

Of course, . . . the old testament god [and the new testament god, if you believe the ridiculous Revelation doctrine] didn't need "hate" to murder millions in a global flood, or indirectly as he called for the complete destruction of all people from various cultures. Is he going to pay for those sins? Of course not.
God is moral and right no matter what he doesTongue

"I don't have to have faith, I have experience." Joseph Campbell
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