Logic behind choice?
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29-06-2011, 01:12 PM
Logic behind choice?
My title sucks, this thread might too.

I just can't get around it, I can't figure it out.

How do they do it? How do people decide that the religion they follow makes any more sense than all the other ones out there? I mean I understand why they would maybe like the idea of religion and I understand why they might choose (be born into) the religion they are in. But how the hell can they know about the other ones out there, ones very similar to their own with maybe a few niggling differences, or even the ones that are crazy different, and think that theirs is the one that makes sense while simultaneously disregarding all others as crazy?

It doesn't matter whether they know any of the details from other religions, all it matters is that they are aware of other religions. How can it not nag at them. It would drive me insane to be in a religion while knowing there are others out there, if I wasn't able to prove that mine was genuine.

What is it? I've seen video of people chastising other religious beliefs, calling them ridiculous, while defending their own. I've seen this in person too, and if I was as knowledgeable of religion as I am now it would have gone differently. I don't get it.

It makes me think of how we assume that anyone who hears voices these days is certifiable, and yet once upon a time ago we would have written a book about them and made them a religious figure. How is it more insane now? If you read the bible and believe it, then you must believe in the possibility that people who hear the voice of god, could actually be hearing the voice of god. How do they find it conceivable to just write them off as crazy.
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I don't know why I wonder these things when I am fully aware of the level of delusion that must be present in anyone who can easily believe the things written down in religious books without need of proof, but they bother me. If anyone has any good idea how this rational works please spill your guts.

On a side note, I've apparently forgotten how to spell, because I've had to run spell check corrector over 14 times in just this one post.... My English teacher would be ashamed. Damn you red underline for your mockery!!

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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29-06-2011, 04:20 PM
 
RE: Logic behind choice?
I have often pondered about this myself. How can they possibly sit there and think, 'Well. I just got lucky. I mean, I just happened to be born into the right region to get the one undeniable religion.' Surely that doesn't go through their brains. So what does?

I'm just going to use my grandfather as an example. I dont mean this example to represent all religious folk. Its just a case that I know well enough to talk about.

It is my impression that he is too insecure to change. He is getting on in age. He has health problems. It would not surprise me to see his health take him in the next handful of years. Lets take the role of such a person. We have had a long life [we will call 60 years a long life here]. For roughly 50 of those 60 years, we can consider ourselves Christian. Baptist to be precise. Now for the 10 years of our Christian life [age 10-20] we were just Christian because well, our parents were. Its the only answer we are really aware of. Its not a choice, it just is. Now in our second decade of being a Christian [age 20-30] we have gained enough exposure to the world to learn that there are other religions, even other subreligions of our own religion. There are Muslims, Catholics, Methodists, etc etc. Perhaps we look around. Window shop the religions close to home. Methodists, Pentecostal, Catholic, etc. Any number of things could happen in this time period. We could go from Baptist to Catholic to Methodist to anything really. This is the period in which change is most likely. We are out away from our parents and trying to define ourselves in the world. [I know my Grandfather looked at Catholicism. He turned away from it because he thought no Loving God would send infants to hell]. We decide to stay Baptist, but at least we can say we 'had an open mind.' Now in our next decade [age 30-40] we decide to have kids. We raise these children telling them about the Baptist belief and belief in God, etc etc. We teach them the tennants and tell them they will burn in hell if they do the wrong thing. We paint a vivid picture of a place where they are roasted alive forever and ever by monsters with horns that stab them with iron rods so that the young children dont dare forget the danger. Then we remind them that Jesus died to save them from that, but we dont mention that God set up the whole endless torture bit in the first place. [Because a place just away from God wasnt good enough. It had to be on fire too.] In our next decade [age 40-50] our children are getting old enough to think for themselves, somewhat. We dont really encourage it though. [This is where, at least for my Grandfather, it all starts to kick in]. If we were to change our minds, if we were to turn away from God to another god or god system, we would have to admit we were wrong. We would have to tell the children 'I made a mistake'. We would have to accept that we lived 30 years absorbed in a mistake. A huge fraction of our life, one could argue, wasted. Not only would this feel terrible, it would damage the credibility with the children.

From here on, again, at least with my Grandfather, it became an 'all or nothing' bet. He cant consider other religions. He cannot consider another possibility. He CANNOT be wrong. My grandfather is a very stubborn man. His perception must always be correct. I have never heard him admit that he was wrong about something minor. I cannot conceive of him admitting fault to something 'important' like wasting his life on false assumptions.

I think, that for many many people, by the time they think to question their beliefs, they have spent so long believing, it scares them.
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29-06-2011, 05:48 PM
RE: Logic behind choice?
That's good, I like that. I'm sure that is probably the reason for a great portion of people. I would imagine as well that by the time those that were born into religion are in a position to judge for themselves, a bunch of them are too afraid because they've had it burned into their minds that if they reject the religion they know they will burn for it.

I still wonder though, what about people who come to religion later in life? People who choose it for themselves out of serious thought. (or absence of thought). How is it possible. Part of me thinks it's all just a big comforting lie. The same part of me that thinks people can't ever be 100% against the idea of god, or 100% for it. We are creatures of doubt. But a lot of people say they are, which I think is just another comforting lie. I think it bothers me so much because I can't do it. I'm jealous and spiteful. Ignorance is bliss, so long as everyone shares the same ignorance. I want in. But alas this will never happen.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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29-06-2011, 06:23 PM
 
RE: Logic behind choice?
Ignorance may be bliss, but its hardly any fun. I find the sensation of facing the raging tide of stupidity, with even the slightest portion of the weight of the future of the human race on my shoulders, exhilarating. They are the green horde and we are the Emperor's chosen. Okay, I'll cut out the 40k references for now.

It would certainly be ... nice? Nice to just be able to flip the switch for belief. I think I'd choose Buddhism or an eastern religion. But I cant. I can only look at the evidence and say 'Nope. Still not stupid enough.' And I guess, though it may seem contradictory, I enjoy not believing. It doesnt give me purpose, but it certainly gives me a few more goals.
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29-06-2011, 07:22 PM
RE: Logic behind choice?
Yeah you're right on all points. It would be easier if you could just turn off once in a while though. I cant either, and in reality I would rather everyone else just turn on. It becomes overwhelming when for instance you look at the list of facebook friends only to find the ratio of religious to non religious is not favoring your side in the slightest.
It just seems so insane that everyone should notice how insane it is. And yet. I tried Buddhism before and couldn't do it, but I also agree that it would be the one I'd more than likely choose if I could just turn off.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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29-06-2011, 08:12 PM
 
RE: Logic behind choice?
Well old chap. There is but one thing to do. Steep a cup of Earl Grey and talk about the real issues of the day while the plebs go about their robotic lives.
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30-06-2011, 09:21 PM (This post was last modified: 30-06-2011 09:25 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Logic behind choice?
(29-06-2011 08:12 PM)Cube Wrote:  Well old chap. There is but one thing to do. Steep a cup of Earl Grey and talk about the real issues of the day while the plebs go about their robotic lives.

Could I please have a twist more lemon? ... No, no cream or sugar thankyou.


(29-06-2011 04:20 PM)Cube Wrote:  I think, that for many many people, by the time they think to question their beliefs, they have spent so long believing, it scares them.

Fucking GirlyMen.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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01-07-2011, 04:02 PM (This post was last modified: 01-07-2011 04:07 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Logic behind choice?
(29-06-2011 01:12 PM)lucradis Wrote:  It would drive me insane to be in a religion while knowing there are others out there, if I wasn't able to prove that mine was genuine.
It's amazing that you do not consider your predicament of obsessing over this as "driving (you) insane." Why do you want to figure them out? You know that their philosophy is erroneous and you have plenty of other atheist that agree with you - oh yeah, all the other atheists are obsessing with you over the same stuff.


(29-06-2011 08:12 PM)Cube Wrote:  Well old chap. There is but one thing to do. Steep a cup of Earl Grey and talk about the real issues of the day while the plebs go about their robotic lives.
Yeah, that is the thing to do. And then how does one deal with believing that their choice of political alignment is the best?

I mean, doesn't it drive you insane wondering if the other political philosophies might be better at solving the social issues???

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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02-07-2011, 07:52 AM
RE: Logic behind choice?
Outside of the being born into it thing, which tends to make a lifelong commitment. Those born into a religion are likely to change sects if they ever grow disenfranchised with their first sect because they won't question the grounds of their belief just the practice.

Those who seek a religion and find one are very much seeking something that they already think. They want to look at a religion that lets them say, "yeah that's exactly what I thought". That of course is the true religion because they were born with the idea in their head. Of course this has to do with short sidedness, as people often forget that everyone has their own idea in their head and even fellow members think about it in a different way, but still agree to the vague notion.

I added animism to my views of atheism for instance because it explains a large part of who I am. It doesn't make me a devout believer. Animism is a rather practical form of religion. I just take it as many of my views happen to coincide with it. Though I always put atheist last as that is my stressor and the part of my views which should be most noted.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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02-07-2011, 11:15 AM (This post was last modified: 02-07-2011 12:20 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Logic behind choice?
Lilith,

I so wanted to give you a reputation point for your entry, but then I looked up, "animism."

Interestingly and coincidentally, during my walk this morning some nice young white folks discretely crossed my path and rammed a flyer down my throat - it was disguised in a glossy Starbucks' color scheme with a small print background of the designations of coffee flavors and with a headline box, "So Many Choices." On the flip side the intro explained that they were a religious group - Jews for Jesus.

http://jewsforjesus.org/welcome?somanychoices

Jews for Jesus glossy flier Wrote:Starbucks has 87,000 drink combinations listed on their website. They really know how to offer choices. Of course, the coffee we drink is not one of the deeper decisions we make in life. Not like what career to pursue or what person to marry or what religion to choose from. Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, Atheism, Me-ism and on and on.

(Then several lines of Jesus crap)

. . . Want to know more? Just call, email or scan the reader code and be prepared for what lies ahead.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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