Logic vs. Theism
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 1 Votes - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
06-03-2017, 04:32 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(05-03-2017 08:42 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Last year (après Trump), I accidentally found myself at a Meetup group in Singapore and the level of woo boggled the mind.

[spoiler]
The group is called:
CHAT ABOUT TOPICS WHICH SCIENCE STILL CANNOT EXPLAIN
And the description goes:
Quote:spiritual healing, ghosts, religion, new age spirituality, big foot, origins of universe, quantum physics, evolution of life, aliens, UFOs, angels, demons, exorcism, ouija boards, seances, Catholic mysticism, sorcery, hypnotism, reincarnation, tarot cards, divination, blessings, curses, dogman, lochness monsters, ancient stone structures, giants, nephilim, spells, prayer, karma, meditation, mermaids, astrology, space exploration, illuminati, intuition, near death experience, auras and psychic powers.

I wonder why they've limited themselves so much. What about:

fairies, sprites, gnomes, wyverns, unicorns, gremlins, leprechauns, nyads, dryads, werewolves, rocs, dragons, golem, the Bermuda triangle, luck, Murphy's law, brownies, elves, Santa Claus, centaurs, ghouls, The Easter Bunny, imps, the Illuminati, the tooth fairy, pixies, sea serpents, hippogriffs, kelpies, the shrinking size of toilet paper sheets, the banshee, goblins, Paul Bunyan, transubstantiation, the Virgin Mary grilled cheese sandwich, Great Cthulhu, people who ingest colloidal silver, phrenology, the geocentric universe, Harvey the Rabbit, the hollow Earth, Piltdown Man, human levitation, the Cardiff Giant, spontaneous generation, cold fusion, El Dorado, Atlantis, hyperdimensional portals, BASE jumpers, and Alex Jones?

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Dr H's post
06-03-2017, 04:42 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:17 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  What is relevant is that people with a lot in common do tend to share a lot of truth.

Or they share a common interpretation.

Not sure that necessarily qualifies as "truth".

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Dr H's post
06-03-2017, 04:46 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2017 07:17 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 01:24 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 12:31 PM)mordant Wrote:  That doesn't require a "god concept", it just requires a scientific approach to and understanding of the behavior of reality. God adds zero to that, and your last sentence illustrates why. The forces do what they do, and have consistency, and claiming they come from some special capital-S Source you label as god does not change what the forces do or how consistent they are.

Modern culture rejects inductive reasoning. Only the God concept can fully support inductive reasoning. This can be seen best in the writing of Karl Popper who, in "The Logic of Scientific Discovery", desperately tried to show that science is not based on inductive reasoning. He also rejected the idea of consistent forces of history in "The Poverty of Historicism". This is clearly reflected in modern culture which ignores the fact that virtually all modern ethics are similar to those of declining cultures in history, which clearly shows that modern culture is wrong and doomed. Specifically liberalism and feminism are standard attributes of decaying cultures.

My my. Aren't we just the little Miss Coulter.
You do make quite the number of ASSertions there sport. Are you always this dogmatically pontifical ? Have you thought of trying out for Pope ? Your stament about ethics is bullshit. Cultures CHANGE. Ethics change. You can't possibly be saying that in 2017 we are worse off than in 1817. You failed to say how we are worse off and doomed. You failed to demonstrate your BS about feminism being "standard attributes" of decaying cultures. Which ONES exactly are you speaking about ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-03-2017, 04:54 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 01:57 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  In my view, the whole concept of purely objective truth is nonsense, a kind of god of Plato that is part of the Plato-based religions of the West including Atheism. The only thing that there is is experience and thoughts which are our models of reality. Gravity is a human concept, invented (not discovered) by people to model experience.

I thought I understood where you were headed but that post killed that idea. You believe there is a universe and that there are natural forces, correct? The above sounds more solipsistic which seems to be at odds with your "god as nature" views.

How do you reconcile gravity as a force in nature with gravity as a human concept?

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
06-03-2017, 04:59 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:33 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  In Exodus 3:13-14, God refuses to be defined. So assigning the attribute of will to God isn't right.

In the cited verse God does, in fact, define Himself -- as all of existence: "I am that I am".

Elsewhere God isn't shy about defining Himself:

"...merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth" -- Exodus 34:6

"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God." -- Deuteronomy 4:24

"...for God is judge Himself." -- Psalms 50:6


Can one be merciful, jealous, and judgmental without will?

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Dr H's post
06-03-2017, 06:22 PM (This post was last modified: 06-03-2017 06:51 PM by Thoreauvian.)
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 04:59 PM)Dr H Wrote:  Can one be merciful, jealous, and judgmental without will?

If someone tries to define God without consciousness, I think that's an equivocation. Undecided
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Thoreauvian's post
06-03-2017, 06:32 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 01:11 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  I can have reasonable conversations with conservative Mennonites and Muslims even if our definition of God differs because we share the same basic values which are based on the God concept.

Your "god concept" being just the forces of nature with no consciousness or intent, what values can you derive from that? How can they be at all similar to what believers in a personal god derive from their beliefs?

The more I look at your statements the less coherent they appear to be. Perhaps you should try outlining your general philosophy since it appears to be unique.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like unfogged's post
06-03-2017, 06:47 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 01:57 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  In my view, the whole concept of purely objective truth is nonsense, a kind of god of Plato that is part of the Plato-based religions of the West including Atheism.
Atheism is not a religion.

And I agree there is no purely objective truth. As I said.
(06-03-2017 01:57 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  The only thing that there is is experience and thoughts which are our models of reality. Gravity is a human concept, invented (not discovered) by people to model experience.
I would say that we have thoughts and experiences that we can use to inform understandings of reality that usefully approach an accurate model of truth.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes mordant's post
06-03-2017, 06:54 PM
Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 04:59 PM)Dr H Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 02:33 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  In Exodus 3:13-14, God refuses to be defined. So assigning the attribute of will to God isn't right.

In the cited verse God does, in fact, define Himself -- as all of existence: "I am that I am".

Elsewhere God isn't shy about defining Himself:

"...merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth" -- Exodus 34:6

"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God." -- Deuteronomy 4:24

"...for God is judge Himself." -- Psalms 50:6


Can one be merciful, jealous, and judgmental without will?


It's been interesting reading Schmidt's twisting and turning regarding even a rudimentary definition for his god. In reading the exchanges between he and scotsman, I was reminded of a salient quote from PZ Myers:

You can’t say something is “real”, and then claim it exhibits none of the properties of any other real objects, and can’t ever be examined or analyzed empirically. That’s pretty much a good definition of “not real."


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Rachel's post
06-03-2017, 06:57 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 06:54 PM)Rachel Wrote:  It's been interesting reading Schmidt's twisting and turning regarding even a rudimentary definition for his god. In reading the exchanges between he and scotsman, I was reminded of a salient quote from PZ Myers:

You can’t say something is “real”, and then claim it exhibits none of the properties of any other real objects, and can’t ever be examined or analyzed empirically. That’s pretty much a good definition of “not real."

I've been hoping you would post more. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: