Logic vs. Theism
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06-03-2017, 07:21 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:33 AM)fschmidt Wrote:  In Exodus 3:13-14, God refuses to be defined. So assigning the attribute of will to God isn't right.

One teensy weensy problem there sport.
God didn't write it. Ancient (relatively ignorant) human beings wrote it.
The Judean priests assembled, edited, redacted and wrote the texts that ended up in the 1st 4 books in the Bible. We know where the material came from, and approximately when they wrote it. One of the later books actually describes when they brought it back and presented it to Israel. I'll leave that for you to figure out.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-03-2017, 07:33 PM
Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 06:57 PM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 06:54 PM)Rachel Wrote:  It's been interesting reading Schmidt's twisting and turning regarding even a rudimentary definition for his god. In reading the exchanges between he and scotsman, I was reminded of a salient quote from PZ Myers:

You can’t say something is “real”, and then claim it exhibits none of the properties of any other real objects, and can’t ever be examined or analyzed empirically. That’s pretty much a good definition of “not real."

I've been hoping you would post more. Smile


I'm getting there!
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06-03-2017, 08:19 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 06:54 PM)Rachel Wrote:  It's been interesting reading Schmidt's twisting and turning regarding even a rudimentary definition for his god. In reading the exchanges between he and scotsman, I was reminded of a salient quote from PZ Myers:

You can’t say something is “real”, and then claim it exhibits none of the properties of any other real objects, and can’t ever be examined or analyzed empirically. That’s pretty much a good definition of “not real."

Heh. Indeed. PZ comes through again.

--
Dr H

"So, I became an anarchist, and all I got was this lousy T-shirt."
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06-03-2017, 08:54 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 02:06 PM)Astreja Wrote:  I recognize beyond any reasonable doubt that the forces of nature do indeed act on human history.

Give me an example.
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06-03-2017, 08:59 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 04:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  My my. Aren't we just the little Miss Coulter.
You do make quite the number of ASSertions there sport. Are you always this dogmatically pontifical ? Have you thought of trying out for Pope ? Your stament about ethics is bullshit. Cultures CHANGE. Ethics change. You can't possibly be saying that in 2017 we are worse off than in 1817. You failed to say how we are worse off and doomed. You failed to demonstrate your BS about feminism being "standard attributes" of decaying cultures. Which ONES exactly are you speaking about ?

This is a perfect example of modern thinking. It rejects inductive reasoning, rejecting the idea that the same ethical principles that have created successful cultures throughout history apply today. I hate modern culture with a passion, I will enjoy watching its decline and the associated suffering of its disgusting population.
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06-03-2017, 09:01 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
natural selection, random genetic drift, mutation

Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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06-03-2017, 09:01 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
At work.

(06-03-2017 08:54 PM)fschmidt Wrote:  
(06-03-2017 02:06 PM)Astreja Wrote:  I recognize beyond any reasonable doubt that the forces of nature do indeed act on human history.

Give me an example.

Well.... Napoleon and Hitler can make comments about Russian winters.....

The Japanese have the 'Divine' wind against the Mongols......

Consider

So, what? You think some how worshipping the weather is a good/useful thing/past time?

Consider
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06-03-2017, 09:01 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 04:54 PM)unfogged Wrote:  I thought I understood where you were headed but that post killed that idea. You believe there is a universe and that there are natural forces, correct? The above sounds more solipsistic which seems to be at odds with your "god as nature" views.

How do you reconcile gravity as a force in nature with gravity as a human concept?

Explaining deep metaphysical ideas in short forum posts probably won't work. I posted 2 books in an earlier post in this thread that explain the ideas in detail. But to answer your question, the forces of nature are human concepts.
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06-03-2017, 09:03 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 04:59 PM)Dr H Wrote:  In the cited verse God does, in fact, define Himself -- as all of existence: "I am that I am".

Elsewhere God isn't shy about defining Himself:

"...merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth" -- Exodus 34:6

"For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God." -- Deuteronomy 4:24

"...for God is judge Himself." -- Psalms 50:6


Can one be merciful, jealous, and judgmental without will?

God isn't being defined in these example. God is being described by using personification as an analogy. I explained this in earlier posts.
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06-03-2017, 09:05 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(06-03-2017 06:47 PM)mordant Wrote:  I would say that we have thoughts and experiences that we can use to inform understandings of reality that usefully approach an accurate model of truth.

Accurate in what sense? Your definition of truth here depends on your definition of accurate.
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