Logic vs. Theism
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16-03-2017, 03:11 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 12:08 PM)JesseB Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 06:58 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Taking scripture out of context. and I'm talking about the theology of the bible. Not proof that it was actually inspired.

Now I would like to address your mindless assertion, that verses that condone slavery (thereby endorsing slavery by extension) are taken out of context.

1. There is no context which would change the point. There is no context which would change "Obey your master even if he's an abusive fuck" (paraphrasing the bible here) into something that is less reprehensible.

2. It sounds like you're mindlessly saying out of context because an Atheist know's the bible better than you do. I can assure you these verses are not being used out of context. Intellectual honesty would get you far on a site like this, please try and use it.

3. The all powerful all mighty all knowing all good "GODDDDDDUH" (the way Christians I meet always pronounce it) is given a choice.

Option 1 He could say.... um hey everyone... owning slaves is kinda a dick move, knock it the fuck off.

Option 2 He could say.... Hey guys slavery's OK and here's some rules to make it better (which would be implied by the second half even if he didn't openly state the first half of this statement)

Option 3 He could say... Nothing

Option 4 He could say... I love slaves

Now to your mind only option 4 is an endorsement of slavery (hint you're fucking wrong about that)
There is only one right answer in this situation. Your god dun fucked up. get over it.

Finally, slavery was endorsed and encouraged and justified by Christians for far longer than its been denounced by them. They used the same bible to justify their position, and frankly they had a better understanding of it than you do.

It was those who didn't believe in your god. Deists, non theists, along with Christians who could see this was a mistake, who forced through time and in this country a fucking war the changes that cause you to now denounce slavery. That cause you to jump through hoops to ignore reality.

The bible actually don't condone it just that's how it was back then and they needed to have that.
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16-03-2017, 03:44 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 03:09 PM)socialistview Wrote:  How do you know its mythology its telling you that you will get real physical results if you obeys gods command. But have faith that's all I can tell you becuase hav ing evidence for god is not faith.

How do we know it's mythology? Reason, that's how.

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16-03-2017, 03:46 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 03:11 PM)socialistview Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 12:08 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Now I would like to address your mindless assertion, that verses that condone slavery (thereby endorsing slavery by extension) are taken out of context.

1. There is no context which would change the point. There is no context which would change "Obey your master even if he's an abusive fuck" (paraphrasing the bible here) into something that is less reprehensible.

2. It sounds like you're mindlessly saying out of context because an Atheist know's the bible better than you do. I can assure you these verses are not being used out of context. Intellectual honesty would get you far on a site like this, please try and use it.

3. The all powerful all mighty all knowing all good "GODDDDDDUH" (the way Christians I meet always pronounce it) is given a choice.

Option 1 He could say.... um hey everyone... owning slaves is kinda a dick move, knock it the fuck off.

Option 2 He could say.... Hey guys slavery's OK and here's some rules to make it better (which would be implied by the second half even if he didn't openly state the first half of this statement)

Option 3 He could say... Nothing

Option 4 He could say... I love slaves

Now to your mind only option 4 is an endorsement of slavery (hint you're fucking wrong about that)
There is only one right answer in this situation. Your god dun fucked up. get over it.

Finally, slavery was endorsed and encouraged and justified by Christians for far longer than its been denounced by them. They used the same bible to justify their position, and frankly they had a better understanding of it than you do.

It was those who didn't believe in your god. Deists, non theists, along with Christians who could see this was a mistake, who forced through time and in this country a fucking war the changes that cause you to now denounce slavery. That cause you to jump through hoops to ignore reality.

The bible actually don't condone it just that's how it was back then and they needed to have that.

Wow dude, how dogmatically ignorant, and thick can one person choose to be? Instead of like reading what I fucking said and realizing the irony in your blind assertion here that fails to address my point, you continue forward undaunted.....
(Maybe you don't realize it, but your response reinforced my point)
Fucking WoW

(Hey but thanks for using the reply button. I'll give you that one)

DLJ Wrote:And, yes, the principle of freedom of expression works both ways... if someone starts shit, better shit is the best counter-argument.
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16-03-2017, 03:53 PM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 03:09 PM)socialistview Wrote:  How do you know its mythology its telling you that you will get real physical results if you obeys gods command.

Except that centuries of history show that there's no correlation there. It's a fairy tale.

Quote: But have faith that's all I can tell you becuase hav ing evidence for god is not faith.

Right, having evidence is not faith. Having evidence is good. Having faith is childish.

(16-03-2017 03:11 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible actually don't condone it just that's how it was back then and they needed to have that.

So your god was subject to "just how it was"? If he can say "do not murder" then he can damn well say "do not rape" and "do not own people as property". Stop making excuses for your thug god.

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17-03-2017, 02:51 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism



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17-03-2017, 02:58 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 03:53 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 03:09 PM)socialistview Wrote:  How do you know its mythology its telling you that you will get real physical results if you obeys gods command.

Except that centuries of history show that there's no correlation there. It's a fairy tale.

Quote: But have faith that's all I can tell you becuase hav ing evidence for god is not faith.

Right, having evidence is not faith. Having evidence is good. Having faith is childish.

(16-03-2017 03:11 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible actually don't condone it just that's how it was back then and they needed to have that.

So your god was subject to "just how it was"? If he can say "do not murder" then he can damn well say "do not rape" and "do not own people as property". Stop making excuses for your thug god.

Ah, the classic flip-flop between an all-powerful creator and a very limited caretaker who just showed up and is "doing his best".

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17-03-2017, 05:50 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 03:11 PM)socialistview Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 12:08 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Now I would like to address your mindless assertion, that verses that condone slavery (thereby endorsing slavery by extension) are taken out of context.

1. There is no context which would change the point. There is no context which would change "Obey your master even if he's an abusive fuck" (paraphrasing the bible here) into something that is less reprehensible.

2. It sounds like you're mindlessly saying out of context because an Atheist know's the bible better than you do. I can assure you these verses are not being used out of context. Intellectual honesty would get you far on a site like this, please try and use it.

3. The all powerful all mighty all knowing all good "GODDDDDDUH" (the way Christians I meet always pronounce it) is given a choice.

Option 1 He could say.... um hey everyone... owning slaves is kinda a dick move, knock it the fuck off.

Option 2 He could say.... Hey guys slavery's OK and here's some rules to make it better (which would be implied by the second half even if he didn't openly state the first half of this statement)

Option 3 He could say... Nothing

Option 4 He could say... I love slaves

Now to your mind only option 4 is an endorsement of slavery (hint you're fucking wrong about that)
There is only one right answer in this situation. Your god dun fucked up. get over it.

Finally, slavery was endorsed and encouraged and justified by Christians for far longer than its been denounced by them. They used the same bible to justify their position, and frankly they had a better understanding of it than you do.

It was those who didn't believe in your god. Deists, non theists, along with Christians who could see this was a mistake, who forced through time and in this country a fucking war the changes that cause you to now denounce slavery. That cause you to jump through hoops to ignore reality.

The bible actually don't condone it just that's how it was back then and they needed to have that.

They needed to have that? So they needed to have slaves and the entire immoral institution of slavery?

Care to clarify this idiotic statement?

Because a god that tells an entire group of people to rest on the Sabbath (under penalty of death!) or not boil a baby goat in it's mother's milk sure as hell could have told them to stop any and all slave ownership, trading, selling, etc.

How about if you stop making excuses for this? You make yourself look like an immoral idiot and then insult the intelligence of anyone everyone on this forum if you think you can make this sound reasonable.

You are really dense, so I don't think you'll get it, so here's an example of intellectual honesty-

I admit slavery was morally reprehensible and this god could have easily stopped it but didn't. This is a troubling moral failing of this book, perhaps I can merely take the best moral examples from it and admit that this book has shortcoming and be very careful to what credit I am willing to give this book in terms of it's authority.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-03-2017, 05:59 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(16-03-2017 03:11 PM)socialistview Wrote:  
(16-03-2017 12:08 PM)JesseB Wrote:  Now I would like to address your mindless assertion, that verses that condone slavery (thereby endorsing slavery by extension) are taken out of context.

1. There is no context which would change the point. There is no context which would change "Obey your master even if he's an abusive fuck" (paraphrasing the bible here) into something that is less reprehensible.

2. It sounds like you're mindlessly saying out of context because an Atheist know's the bible better than you do. I can assure you these verses are not being used out of context. Intellectual honesty would get you far on a site like this, please try and use it.

3. The all powerful all mighty all knowing all good "GODDDDDDUH" (the way Christians I meet always pronounce it) is given a choice.

Option 1 He could say.... um hey everyone... owning slaves is kinda a dick move, knock it the fuck off.

Option 2 He could say.... Hey guys slavery's OK and here's some rules to make it better (which would be implied by the second half even if he didn't openly state the first half of this statement)

Option 3 He could say... Nothing

Option 4 He could say... I love slaves

Now to your mind only option 4 is an endorsement of slavery (hint you're fucking wrong about that)
There is only one right answer in this situation. Your god dun fucked up. get over it.

Finally, slavery was endorsed and encouraged and justified by Christians for far longer than its been denounced by them. They used the same bible to justify their position, and frankly they had a better understanding of it than you do.

It was those who didn't believe in your god. Deists, non theists, along with Christians who could see this was a mistake, who forced through time and in this country a fucking war the changes that cause you to now denounce slavery. That cause you to jump through hoops to ignore reality.

The bible actually don't condone it just that's how it was back then and they needed to have that.

> Of course the Bible condones slavery. It tells us who we can buy and sell as slaves and gives rules about how slaves are to be treated. You're attempting to use the biblical apologist's favorite excuse: The Bible MEANS something other than what it SAYS.
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17-03-2017, 06:25 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
(17-03-2017 02:58 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  Ah, the classic flip-flop between an all-powerful creator and a very limited caretaker who just showed up and is "doing his best".

Yep, can't just outlaw slavery or rape because "free will" but can impose 613 rules about what you must and must not do including blanket rules on coveting, and drawing pictures for fuck's sake... exactly how big a problem was it that people were seething baby goats in their mother's milk that that took precedence over rape and slavery? But this is the ultimate guide to morality!

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17-03-2017, 07:28 AM
RE: Logic vs. Theism
I see the bible as more of a mish-mash of what passed for common sense and health & safety rules at the time. It also regulates several practices which were clearly not considered a problem (at least by those who had any power).

Our society is so far removed from what we read, that I don't know how anyone can think it still has any relevance at all as far as morality goes. Or even useful advice. It's often demonstrably wrong, even in factual matters. It is really painful to watch people try to retrofit their values into this fake history book.

I wonder how many christians have actually sat down and read the whole bible, cover to cover. I'm guessing less than 10%, by the fact that many of the things they claim the bible says, it doesn't say at all. They've just heard that it says it, and that's good enough for them. And many things I've pointed it out it says, they've never heard of. I think they'd be in for a nasty shock if they checked it all out for themselves.

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